[Urb]

I couldn't find any previous discussion about this (my Search-Fu is weak), so if it has already been brought up could you please point me in the right direction?

Anyway...

Reaper said:

The shadow of a gliding owl slipped over the glistening slide, crossing his intended path, and Hannan Mosag froze.
No. It cannot be. There is no-one alive to claim that title.
He is dead.
He was not even Tiste Edur!
And yet, who stood alone before Rhulad Sengar? Yes, she has his severed finger. The owl - most ancient of omens - the owl, to mark the coming of the one.
...
'Mother Dark. Father Light. I await your word. I await...'
He could go no further.
Weeping, Hannan Mosag rested his head on the stones. 'As you say,' he muttered. 'I will not deny the omen. Very well, it is not for me to choose.
'He shall be our Mortal Sword of Emurlahn - no, not the old title. The new one, to suit this age. Mortal Sword.' Madness - why would he even agree? Letherii...
'So be it.'

Now, I haven't reread RG more than about 350 pages, so it could be I missed something big when I read it the first time, but what is going on here?

Can he be Mortal Sword to a Warren? I thought one could only be Mortal Sword to specific gods. Is Brys Beddict now the Mortal Sword of Tiam? Or (a bit hard to believe) Shadowthrone?

[Mentalist]

heh... I see him as mmore of a knew Knight of Shadow (RIP, Trull.....)
in MoI we are told that MS is the old-speak for "Knight of high House blank"
And I can only asssme that the Empty Hold is Shadow-related...

[Urb]

Ok..
So, is Baudin Hood's Mortal Sword?

[Mentalist]

Baudin is a Knight--the distinction, imho, is in who uses the term. in RGit is used by the Letherii and the Edur who got it from the Letherii--and Letherii are kinda behiond on the whole "warren/house" situation... Since Hood is a "modern" god, with a warren, a high house and everything, he'll refer to Baudin as knight...
But basically, yeah, pretty much..

[Urb]

I see a certain logic in that.
Do you have any notion as to which god Brys Beddict is the Mortal Sword of?

[Mentalist]

like I said, I'm assuming the Empty Hold is Shadow-related... so could be Scabby, ST, Cot....

[Cougar]

My take is that trull was the Knight of Shadow very briefly, but this was related to 'new' shadow, since the endorsement of his position was related to 'new' shadow. Now, I'm pretty convienced Brys is the Knight of Emhurlan at the moment, which I think is the empty hold in Lether, or at least a fragment is.

[D'rek]

I believe an additional distinction is that Mortal Swords are... mortal. They are usually not ascendants, ie Gruntle, the Grey Swords' mortal swords (pre and post fener's fall), the perish and now Brys.
This doesn't mean that a "Knight of High House ______" has to be an ascendant, he/she can be mortal (ie Trull) but are often special and no longer 'mortal' (ie Baudin).
This allows for some overlap, as a Mortal Sword could also be a Knight of so-and-so...

Though Brys died, he seems to have been preserved and upon return to Lether seems to be fully mortal again, unlike Baudin who can't remember himself, can't drop his swords and is pretty much a talking zombie.

P.S., the title of this thread should possibly be changed as it's a bit of a spoiler and can be read from the general forums page...

[q21]

I viewed that section as an insight into Hanan Mosag's plans. He wants to fix Emurlahn, and he needs a mortal sword lined up for when that happens. While he expects that to be an edur he has learned, through his omens and whatnot, that the best candidate for that position will be Brys Beddict. I think that in Mosags sceming he (Hanan Mosag) will be the god of the healed Kurald Emurlahn and Brys will be his mortal sword.

But that's just my theory.

[Mentalist]

@ skir: no one ever said ANYWHERE that Ascendants aren't mortal.
i'm confident that Baudin can still be killed, albeit it's prolly more difficult, but the same can be said of Gruntle...

[Sinisdar Toste]

good point kud, ganoes is a mortal(lets not open that can or worms now. the man is ascended!), the BB's are mortal, come to think of it, the most prevalent theme in these books is that no one is immortal, people just get harder to kill. the sisters are an example of this.

[Zanth13]

im pretty sure he meant immortal as in Doesnt age not as in unkillable

we already know everyone can be killed in the malaz world, even mother dark...

and it makes sense to think that if someone becomes Knight of a house, they would ascend in some way, or at least reap the benefits of longevity.

From what we have seen Mortal swords are fused by the power of their patron god, just like the desrtiant and can lose these powers at the whim of the god,

I think those titles are similar to what the houses offer today but not the exact same thing....everything has evolved.

[Urb]

skir;244771 said:

P.S., the title of this thread should possibly be changed as it's a bit of a spoiler and can be read from the general forums page...

I didn't think of that. Just thought it would be easy to find this later for people using the search tool.

Moderators?

[Aptorian]

Couldn't they just put an ? at the of the tittle, this making it not a spoiler.

There's a lot of strange assertions going on in this thread.

Mortal Swords are NOT the old word for Knights. Champion is. We've never to my knowledge heard an MS being linked to these other tittles. Mortal Swords are directly linked to the service of a god whilst the Champion and Knight serve a higher purpose, the protection of a warren/house/hold.

The question would be if you could both be a Mortal Sword and also hold a position in a house. You probably could. I don't see why not.

What I find most interesting is one of the last lines of the quote:

Quote

"He shall be our Mortal Sword of Emurlahn - no, not the old title. The new one, to suit this age. Mortal Sword."

So like Destriant and Shield Anvil are bastardizations of older titles, it would seem that an older version of the Mortal Sword exists. I wonder why Erikson didn't just drop the name then and there.

I still can't rap my mind around the concept of Brys being a MS. For whom? Could it be that like MD has apparently chosen Clip as her new Champion, MD or maybe FL chose Brys to be a mortal sword? Is that tittle then now invalid because the warlock king was supposed to create this new religion and spread it among the Edur and Letherii. With him gone there is no new faith for Brys to lead.

As for ascendants being mortal. What kind of nonsense is this? When you don't age or get sick you are immortal. This doesn't mean they are indestructable. It's just not as cool calling mortals "destructibles".

[Urb]

Well, Clip is Mortal Sword to Anomander Rake.
So I'm guessing you meant to say MD has chosen Clip as Rake's Champion?

Also, I got the feeling from the text that Hannan Mosag didn't choose Brys, he accepted the choice already being made (by MD and FL?). So the interesting question is, like you said, to which god is Brys Beddict the Mortal Sword?

[Aptorian]

Really, Clip was the MS of Rake? Not Mother Darks new champion? My mind is slipping.

Mortal Swords are sometimes connected to a faith, a religion if you will, like the Grey swords and Fener/Togg and Fancypants. I think that Brys was being chosen to spearhead this new "church of Emurhlan" that Mosagg was beginning. A return to the old ways. I wonder if Brys was connected to a god at all.

[BornInDarkness]

So Brys is the new Mortal Sword of Emurlahn. Doesn't that mean that someone has finally seated himself in the Throne of Shadow? So Brys would be his MS, the new ruler of Emurlahn. The throne of Shadow was in possesion of Cotillion and ST. So either one of those 2 has made his claim or they chose someone to take that seat? Apsalar maybe?

[Aptorian]

Like I wrote, faith.

Mosag was reinstating an old religion based on the worship of MD and FL. He'd gone away from Scabby whom he probably always knew, saw, realised wasn't a real god.

Emurhlan would be based on worship of the once was and what will soon be. So they are worshipping and preparing for the coming. Like the christian kingdom come.

[Lisheo]

Trull, maybe... ? Has he died to claim the Throne of Shadow, maybe?

[Aptorian]

my faith in Eriksons writting was shaken after RG but I still believe that Erikson would have placed some character during the end commenting on Trulls death and some new appearance