[Aptorian]

Yes, Rhulad was the mortal sword, this was revealed in by the whispering spirits on Drift Avali. They mention a mortal sword of a thousand deaths. Rhulad wasn't the king of chains he's never been described as such, in fact I don't think he was ever connected to the house... not conciously anyway, which is what a king wouldn need to be. Rhulad was the CGs through and through.

I think it's a storyelement that there is no king of the house yet, it has just been created and as such there's a competion to see who's most suited, right now its probably Kallor or Karsa. Janal wants it too.

Rhulad also ruins your idea that Mortal Swords are mortal and less powerfull than a knight.

[Optimus Prime]

Rhulad is Mortal Sword and less powerful than the Knight (Karsa)

[Aptorian]

Less powerfull of just stupid with crazy? Karsa used absolutly no powers to defeat Rhulad, just skill and subtlety.

Rhulad had no insight because he needed none, a part of him longed for every death, as we see when he taunts Karsa. You don't become a very good swordsman when your tactic is to zerg your opponent and try again if he kills you this time.

Could Karsa open a rift big enough to flood a warren?

[Optimus Prime]

Power is measured in many ways.

I'd say Karsa is way stronger overall. We never really see Rhulad do much, do we. We hear of him doing these things...but not much is really done

*sidenote...too much "do's" in that post, sorry

[D'rek]

Rhulad as the Mortal Sword is said by the drift avaliians and by Hood in MoI. However, Fiddler's card for the King of HHoC in BH also describes Rhulad very well. The confusion there is that either stormy or gesler thinks its the CG, but he is more accurately describe by the card deathstealer... all in all a very tangled web...

[Mentalist]

the CG himself is NOT part of the HoC
The position of king was "promised" to Kallor in MoI, but instead Rhulad got it, as shown by the card.

[D'rek]

kud13;246784 said:

the CG himself is NOT part of the HoC
The position of king was "promised" to Kallor in MoI, but instead Rhulad got it, as shown by the card.

Unless the CG is part of the house of chains...
and unless Rhulad isn't the king in chains...

Lots of positions were assigned before Paran legitimized the house, and the CG is very unique and special in a myriad of ways. Rest assured the final explanation will be something that totally makes sense but that nobody ever even conceived of...

[Optimus Prime]

I wonder if there is a new Queen now that Poliel is dead...wait is it the former Letherii King's wife?

[Mentalist]

Yup it is.
@ skir: Also, I don't remember where, might be the malazan wiki, that it's stated that the CG created a house and let it loose in the world. He's explicitly stated NOT to be a part of it. His card is quite obviously the Deathstealer, an unaligned that has a tent, a smoking brazier and a broken, chained figure, whose chains reach into the earth.

[Optimus Prime]

Kud is right.

The Crippled God wants his House to be let in...but not himself...he wants to remain outside but manipulate his House which is inside the game.

[Zendog13]

Correct me if me if I am wrong but was not Poliel the Consort? I believe it was mentioned in MoI. And the CG wanted to remain separate from the House. Not sure if Paran's recognition of said house changed that. Maybe now that it is a legit house the CG is bound to it whether he likes it or not.

[Mcflury]

aye, that's exatly how it is zendog.

[Optimus Prime]

Hmmm....I need to re-read a lot Paran's sections in the books....I'm a little foggy...where is Abyss when you need him?

[D'rek]

i'm just saying, what the CG wants and what he gets ain't always the same (gee, the books are chock full of examples of this). The CG may think he's all special and seperate from the house he's created, but Paran didn't know/think/believe such when he legitimized it. Plus, I don't think you can create a house with the intent of it wreaking havoc on the world as your own form of vengeance and rage, and then say "It may be doing what I made it to do and killing everything because I wanted it to do that, but I'm not affiliated with it in any way! Honest!!! Don't hurt me again Maelee!"

[Optimus Prime]

Well I don't know...there are the two theories:

1) The Crippled God is an elemental force/Elder God and is native to the same realm/plane of existence as the other Elders. If this is the case..then I can see the normal rules of Houses applying to him. He then would have to be tied to his House and be a part of it.

2) If indeed the Crippled God is an alien God from another plane or universe...then I don't know if the normal rules apply to him. He could have a House influenced by him and remain apart of it...and have his own unaligned card in the deck.

I think....

[Mentalist]

Grrrr..

In tBH--long AFTER the house has been sanctioned we get to see brand-new House cards. The King in Chains--clearly Rhulad
The Consort/Queen--Poliel. Then, she gets otataral'ed and dies. in RG, the Queen of Letheras is granted that position
Back to tBH-- an UNALIGNED card called the Deathstealer is shown. It is a 100% match to the description of the CG from MT.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

kud13;247678 said:

Grrrr..

In tBH--long AFTER the house has been sanctioned we get to see brand-new House cards. The King in Chains--clearly Rhulad
The Consort/Queen--Poliel. Then, she gets otataral'ed and dies. in RG, the Queen of Letheras is granted that position
Back to tBH-- an UNALIGNED card called the Deathstealer is shown. It is a 100% match to the description of the CG from MT.

Janall is the Consort in Chains? Where did that come up? I don't remember reading that.

[D'rek]

Janall being the new Consort is just speculation. I believe she mumbles something about how the position is vacant or how she aspires to it, but I don't believe there is any solid evidence for her assuming the role.

As for the larger issue:
The Crippled God is chained to Burn in several events called the Chainings. In GotM he is labeled as the King of Chains. His henchmen connect the souls of Karsa's victims to Karsa with chains. He's so inexorably tied up with this chains theme of his that it seems unlikely he would then actually set the House of Chains free from his influence. The CG is really good at feints and sub-ploys, there's a very real possibility that his "setting free" the house is just some devious scheme.

Meanwhile, we seem him continuing to actively participate in HoC-related stuff, like trying to get the Knight of Chains to pick up Rhulad's sword. If janall is trying to be the new Consort in Chains, then that just sweetens it, as what connection did she ever have to the HoC? Janall was corrupted and disfigured solely by the power of the CG, as the HoC didn't even exist then. If the CG were truly seperate, wouldn't she instead be aspiring to be the CG's Destriant or some such...

[Mentalist]

skir;247910 said:

Janall being the new Consort is just speculation. I believe she mumbles something about how the position is vacant or how she aspires to it, but I don't believe there is any solid evidence for her assuming the role.

I believe it was along the lines OF Janall begging to become the new Consort, the CG telling her that nothing good for her will come out if it. Then, eventually, he agreed to it.

skir;247910 said:

As for the larger issue:
The Crippled God is chained to Burn in several events called the Chainings. In GotM he is labeled as the King of Chains. His henchmen connect the souls of Karsa's victims to Karsa with chains. He's so inexorably tied up with this chains theme of his that it seems unlikely he would then actually set the House of Chains free from his influence. The CG is really good at feints and sub-ploys, there's a very real possibility that his "setting free" the house is just some devious scheme.

Meanwhile, we seem him continuing to actively participate in HoC-related stuff, like trying to get the Knight of Chains to pick up Rhulad's sword. If janall is trying to be the new Consort in Chains, then that just sweetens it, as what connection did she ever have to the HoC? Janall was corrupted and disfigured solely by the power of the CG, as the HoC didn't even exist then. If the CG were truly seperate, wouldn't she instead be aspiring to be the CG's Destriant or some such...

There's no doubt that the House of Chais is his invention, I never disputed that. And, of course, he gives directions to the members of the House, helping them to carry out his agenda. Still, we must keep in minfd that CG is Alien, meaning he doesn't belong in the same universe as Burn, Wu, SD, The Kurald warrens and all the rest. Meaning, the rules of the Deck, (and of the Azath, who established it) do not necessarily apply to him. Thus, just because the Azath and Paran wanted to bind him into the rules of the Deck by sanctioning his House, doesnt mean it would work as they'd want it to.
It's also important to remember, that the second most powerful position in that House is Knight. and Karsa flat out refuses to serve the CG. Now, I'm sure if CG was the King of House of Chains he'd be able to exert more influence on Karsa, or at the very least, appoint someone else to that position.
And then, once again, there's the evidence provided by the Deathstealer card, which is clearly Unaligned. Here I'd like to refer once again to tBH, when Paran is thinking about Felisin the Fat. he says something along the lines of "I think I'm gonna have to add a new Unaligned card to the deck--Salvation. Right now, it's in the sphere of influence of the House of chains, but I predict that it will soon break free of it". I believe that the CG (Deathstealer) is the same way--currently he's heavily entangled with his creation-- the House of Chains, but if more people like Karsa, who have no desire to serve him gain positions there, he'll stop using it, and revert back to being an unpredictable, random power--the direct purpose of the Unaligned.

[D'rek]

Good points.

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There's no doubt that the House of Chais is his invention, I never disputed that. And, of course, he gives directions to the members of the House, helping them to carry out his agenda. Still, we must keep in minfd that CG is Alien, meaning he doesn't belong in the same universe as Burn, Wu, SD, The Kurald warrens and all the rest. Meaning, the rules of the Deck, (and of the Azath, who established it) do not necessarily apply to him. Thus, just because the Azath and Paran wanted to bind him into the rules of the Deck by sanctioning his House, doesnt mean it would work as they'd want it to.

True enough, we can't really know for sure, but it seems like a major cop-out to me if there's this huuuge, all-gods-involved debate through all of MoI about the sanctioning of the House, and then it means nothing afterwards because the CG is alien and therefore special.
The thought occurs to me that perhaps he seperated himself from the HoC as a counter-move to it being sanctioned...

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It's also important to remember, that the second most powerful position in that House is Knight. and Karsa flat out refuses to serve the CG. Now, I'm sure if CG was the King of House of Chains he'd be able to exert more influence on Karsa, or at the very least, appoint someone else to that position.

As far as the CG replacing/influencing Karsa, we see at the end of RG that the CG thought he had Karsa well-enough in hand, as he brought Karsa to his secret island-lair and thought Karsa would take the sword. This could be just the CG trying to play all sides, but i think his crying afterwards evidences that it had been his objective for some time to have the sword go to Karsa. Thus, the only time the CG might truly believe in Karsa's rejection of his influence is starting after RG.

Quote

And then, once again, there's the evidence provided by the Deathstealer card, which is clearly Unaligned. Here I'd like to refer once again to tBH, when Paran is thinking about Felisin the Fat. he says something along the lines of "I think I'm gonna have to add a new Unaligned card to the deck--Salvation. Right now, it's in the sphere of influence of the House of chains, but I predict that it will soon break free of it". I believe that the CG (Deathstealer) is the same way--currently he's heavily entangled with his creation-- the House of Chains, but if more people like Karsa, who have no desire to serve him gain positions there, he'll stop using it, and revert back to being an unpredictable, random power--the direct purpose of the Unaligned.

I suppose i must also concede this possibility, as there is the evident case of Burn, who has her own champions and serfs and remainsanunaligned...