[Gibby]

Ok, finished RG a few days ago. Looking through a lot of the old posts, there was much speculation about how QB could not/should not be powerful enough to kill the three sisters (Dawn, Dusk, Dapple). Others said he got stronger since his encounter w/ Icarium and that explains it.

Anyhow, my view on the encounter with the three sisters is this: Quick Ben did not kill any of them. He simply launched some earth, temporarily trapping them. While this probably took considerable power, the sisters and others did the rest.

Menandore had her head ripped off by one of them and she ripped that sister's belly open and severely damaged her. Hedge then blew that wounded one up w/ a cusser.

The third sister simply flew away, rather than face a cusser, and probably re-considered whether QB had used all his magic up, or would move on to killing her.

It may be that QB is getting stronger (we never really know b/c he hides it--he may have always been stronger than we thought), I thought this situation was the same as most of his others (barring Icarium, where he just blasted away). QB simply blew up some earth, the one sister turned on and killed Menandore, Hedge finished a seriously wounded #2, and #3 was finished by the T'lan Imass Bonecaster Soletakens.

So while QB's actions led to their deaths, his magic did not directly kill any them. In my view, a lot of readers are getting this wrong by saying QB can't be strong enough to have killed these three. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't (again, we don't know b/c QB always hides the extent of his powers). We'll never know since he actually didn't kill them. What he did do was manipulate the situation so that all 3 were killed.

This occurrence is right in line w/ QB saying he got "nastier," not necessarily stronger...and we know he was nasty to begin with. I'm chuckling thinking of our first glimpse of QB...creating the maniacal Hairlock.

[Optimus Prime]

Quick did enough damage to make all you say happened.

(My personaly crazy theory is that one of the souls in QB's body knows a lot about the sisters...and knew that they would turn on each other at some point)

Also...you have to take into account that the 3 sister alliance was shaky...at best. The bonecasters were enough to take out the third sister...even though they all died as well.

I think Quick's best attribute is his knowledge and abliity to adapt to any situation...and yes he is powerful but i think Whiskeyjack said it best when he realized (sometime during MoI) that Quick was the foremost mind in the world...barring perhaps Kruppe haha

[Gibby]

Xander;238095 said:

Quick did enough damage to make all you say happened.

My point exactly--he did damage but did not kill them.

Xander;238095 said:

(My personaly crazy theory is that one of the souls in QB's body knows a lot about the sisters...and knew that they would turn on each other at some point)

Good theory.

Xander;238095 said:

Also...you have to take into account that the 3 sister alliance was shaky...at best. The bonecasters were enough to take out the third sister...even though they all died as well.

Once again, not QB, though the damage probably helped (and she was in human form).

Xander;238095 said:

I think Quick's best attribute is his knowledge and abliity to adapt to any situation...and yes he is powerful but i think Whiskeyjack said it best when he realized (sometime during MoI) that Quick was the foremost mind in the world...barring perhaps Kruppe haha

Yes, that is why I feel continues to survive...not w/ brute strength, but adequate power combined w/ his brains!

Oh, and add to it the fact the 3 sisters in their arrogance completely dismissed QB and Hedge, thinking them harmless, crazy humans. (Another point emphasizing QB's brains over brawn, as, if they'd put up any defenses, things would not have turned out so good for Quick). I do agree w/ many that he's getting stronger, my main point is that he wasn't powerful enough to have taken out the 3 sisters all by himself, which was alleged in many posts, and, I believe the Malazan Encyc, which states (and I quote) "He took on three Soletaken Eleint single-handed and won convincingly." Hedge's cusser, a homicidal betrayal between two sisters, and two Soletaken Imass does not qualify as singlehandedly in my book.

[Mcflury]

okay, this is what I think of it:
Sure, the three sisters didn't put up any defences because they underestimated the enemy... okay, ask Sun Tszu about it: underestimation really is an important part of the game... if you're stupid enough to underestimate someone, you had it coming

Anyways, leave that as it is: okay, QB didn't kill any of the 3 dragons... but what did he do? He crushed bones, tore wings down, made them a bloody pile of dragon meat, and besides: he threw lots of earth in the wounds in the process... so if the dragons weren't magical creatures, they'd died of infections sooner or later anyways Anyhew, my point here is that the dragons were pretty much messed up after QB launched his attack. Could QB have finished them off? Maybe, but then QB would've probably given his life for it (to argument this I'm referring to the parts of QB after that fight, where QB can't even walk in the normal way because he is completely exhausted... and it seems to me a stupid thing to fake it that bad )

Now, if all 3 dragons had attacked QB one by one, I'm pretty sure he could've killed 2 on his own anyways... the fact that they attack all together makes it a tad harder offcourse.
Did QB grow stronger? As is stated before: it cannot be told... allthough I really don't believe QB suddenly got stronger just because he faced Iccy... what I do believe is that QB started releasing more off his power in one blow since he faced Iccy, but not that QB actually grew stronger. (okay, there is this saying 'what doesn't kill me can only make me stronger'... so who knows how literal SE made this metaphor )
Maybe QB new about the sisters, knew they would turn on eachother idd... but it is clearly stated in the book the sisters only turned on each other at the moment they knew they were stopped in their track.. as soon as they wouldn't be able to do something about Silchas anyways. So I don't think QB was counting on the sisters turning onto each other, I think he did really just try to kill them all, or at least scare them off.

[Gothos]

he did enough to be the critical part of their failing. I expect that raising a damned wall of rock that can withstand the impact of 3 soletaken dragons isn't a simple cantrip. recall as well that he was blasting Sukul with simple surges of power once they went down, power that was enough to send her flying across the field.
now, recalling QB from MoI, that's a lot more.

[Mcflury]

well, I think the QB from MoI was also holding back a bit because he was affraid to get ensickened by the chaos again... Sure, the acorn was protecting him, but maybe QB wasn't too sure the acorn would manage if he unleashed his full powers on the enemy.

and about making the wall stopping 3 dragons: ever threw a stone on a flying bird? I hope not, but you'd see the bird collapsing against the ground rather quickly, even though you didn't really hit it that hard... why? because the animals are flying, and by throwing the stone against it (or pounding stone against their bodies) you bring them off-balance and they crash... and after the crash QB just had to hold them in place to main them some more.
I'm not saying it wasn't powerful what QB did, just saying that it would need less power then you might think

[Aptorian]

So you are comparing the aerodynamics of a bird in flight, with a creature that flies using magic?

[Gothos]

Aptorian;238153 said:

So you are comparing the aerodynamics of a bird in flight, with a creature that flies using magic?

amen brother

[Mcflury]

dragons don't only fly using magic do they? they CAN fly using magic, but it doesn't mean they always use magic to flew (except then the soulshifting).

Besides, if I would throw a rock to a bird in flight, it would be a non-magical rock against a non-magical flight.
If QB tosses a magically influenced rock against a magical flight, the magical effects might just negate eachother

Damn, you people are pencil-fuckers really ... you got my point anyways, and the magic hs nothing to do with it... it'll be easier to knock something down that's in the middle of a flight then when it's not (and I don't want to see any remark now that a creature that isn't in flight cannot be knocked down since he actually is already down )

[Aptorian]

erh hrm... A creature that isn't in flight cannot be knocked down since he actually is already down

No matter what, getting a couple a hundred tons of dirt in the face would probably mess most ascendants up for a moment.

[BridgeBurner]

Aptorian;238180 said:

No matter what, getting a couple a hundred tons of dirt in the face would probably mess most ascendants up for a moment.

Especially if they're all female...

[Aptorian]

Did any of you hear that drumroll?

[Obdigore]

Aptorian;238182 said:

Did any of you hear that drumroll?

I figured this thread was going to go places.

[Zanth13]

about QB's power level i will state that a handful of mortal mages brought down the CG, and QB has a handful of magespirits in him so who knows what he can do.

But even with his increase in power(im sure when he said he got nastier he was talking about being stronger) he probably wont go all out if he doenst have to, and even with the 3 sisters he really didnt have to, he had a strategy/plan he executed it and it worked. he did get a little lucky but im sure he had a side plan if it went bad.

[Gibby]

Zanth13;238313 said:

about QB's power level i will state that a handful of mortal mages brought down the CG, and QB has a handful of magespirits in him so who knows what he can do.

But even with his increase in power(im sure when he said he got nastier he was talking about being stronger) he probably wont go all out if he doenst have to, and even with the 3 sisters he really didnt have to, he had a strategy/plan he executed it and it worked. he did get a little lucky but im sure he had a side plan if it went bad.

I totally agree with what you are saying. My point was that people were saying he "singlehandedly" wiped the 3 sisters out. He didn't. He was smart and possibly held back, as you say.

It's interesting to note that at the end of RG after Fid and Hedge launch cussers at Silchas, Quick launches sorcery at him. Even after 2 cussers, Ben's sorcery couldn't kill Silchas, but it did scare him away b/c he was beat to sh$t. Afterwards, Ben is drained (or at least pretends to be, his arms are limp) again. Now, I know Silchas is uber-powerful, but Ben continues to outsmart, not overpower opponents. I think that shows again much more skill than power itself.

Then again, perhaps Ben in this (and other) instances had just exhausted himself of two or three warrens, not twelve. I do recall the encounter w/ Bauchelain when Bauch says "you should have saved some in reserve" and Ben was like, "but I did!". Awesome.

[Zanth13]

Gibby;238315 said:

I totally agree with what you are saying. My point was that people were saying he "singlehandedly" wiped the 3 sisters out. He didn't. He was smart and possibly held back, as you say.

It's interesting to note that at the end of RG after Fid and Hedge launch cussers at Silchas, Quick launches sorcery at him. Even after 2 cussers, Ben's sorcery couldn't kill Silchas, but it did scare him away b/c he was beat to sh$t. Afterwards, Ben is drained (or at least pretends to be, his arms are limp) again. Now, I know Silchas is uber-powerful, but Ben continues to outsmart, not overpower opponents. I think that shows again much more skill than power itself.

Then again, perhaps Ben in this (and other) instances had just exhausted himself of two or three warrens, not twelve. I do recall the encounter w/ Bauchelain when Bauch says "you should have saved some in reserve" and Ben was like, "but I did!". Awesome.

and you are right he didnt do anything himself, (except of course if he gets all the credit because he arranged it using his awsome genius to make his plans:eek: )

zanth notes that one of the souls in QB is Keyser Söze,

[Optimus Prime]

Again a lot of this returns to the truth that we still don't know a lot about Quick Ben. Sure...we know he has 12 souls in him...but that's about it.

Quick knew that distracting and attacking the Sisters would greatly enhance their chances of survival...they guy did what he had to do.

[Zanth13]

Xander;238320 said:

Again a lot of this returns to the truth that we still don't know a lot about Quick Ben. Sure...we know he has 12 souls in him...but that's about it.

Quick knew that distracting and attacking the Sisters would greatly enhance their chances of survival...they guy did what he had to do.

not just any 12 souls

12 mage souls, and at least one of which is a Jahg

what we dont know is what interaction if any he has from those souls...
we know that Kallor threatened to strip him of said souls and he didnt take that to well, we also know he told Rake not to "probe" him (try to figure him out) , but if that was just because he like privacy or because he has something in him he has to hid from Rake or equally powerful people we dont know.

ive been tempted to make a thread for each main character that way we can consolidate all knowledge and theories into one area that can be easily found with the search function, but im afraid there all gonna laugh at me.

all we know for sure is that cup light notebook computer empty fruit yogurt cup.... wait damn... didnt work for me as well as it did for Kevin Spacey...

[Aptorian]

We know that he was in the shadowq cult and that he helped dancer destroy the cult that bidithal(or what ever the sadist was called) was leading. Even before he got the souls he had power.

[Zanth13]

Aptorian;238326 said:

We know that he was in the shadowq cult and that he helped dancer destroy the cult that bidithal(or what ever the sadist was called) was leading. Even before he got the souls he had power.

true, very true... The shadow warren was his first one, plus we know he had spirit magic (ie the voodoo dolls he created as a kid)