[amphibian]

Lady Atheilen;237880 said:

Not much to say here (still haven't read RG, or um, BH *cough*) but at me to the Karsa-haters club. Karsa was one of the main reasons why I've been away from the series for so long. I found his parts unbearable and there were MORE AND MORE OF THEM.

You lack testosterone.

[Lady Atheilen]

I enjoyed the ass-kicking scenes of everyone else. But that may be due to the fact that they actually, you know, kicked ass, instead of just being good with weapons. There's a difference.

ETA: And since when is Malazan Boys' Books, anyway?

[Tarsonis]

I really think Karsa isn't even close to some of the overpowered characters here. But also, seriously, if something is prevalent in S.E's books, isn't that that mortals may well supercede ascendants in a certain field. And that is what Karsa is doing, he is a very good warrior and as is mentioned, the Thelomen Toblakai has such a presence that their mightiest kind of gather a warren around them by that sheer presence.

If you look at what Karsa has been through, i would not say that he is unbeatable. circumstances has favoured him though when he has been victorious, for example like somebody mentioned, if there had been more than one to assail him in the ruins in Samar Dev's city, he would not have survived if he had gone at it using his fists (probably not with his blade either).

Also i do not understand why it is a hard thing to believe he is as strong as he is. He ISN'T a random Teblor anymore, if he ever was. at the same time, throughout this series, I've read about many characters that seemed rather overpoweringly strong that somehow fell in the end. I think, in the end something simple will lay Karsa low.

Like a punch form Urko.

Edit: also, i forgot to mention. I think some people just don't like the barbarian type character in their stories, at least that is what i am reading from many comments here. So I guess in the end it's just something unavoidable in a series with such a wide array of character types that we just can't stand a few of them. personally i find Karsa interesting because he is simple even when not-simple, which is a rather big contrast to the intricacies elsewhere in this series.

[Zanth13]

Dancer;237779 said:

I only have one thing to add to this thread, Xanth! Don't you mean Zanth.

Oh and I smell change in the air, Karsa MUST die at some point for the series to be complete.

ohh I was caught, my alternate personality has been figured out...i mean um of course I ment zanth, yes zanth, xanth doesnt exist so why would I say that...

yes Gothos thats the exact picture i had in mind take some rep....


zanth does not believe in any way shape or form that Fiddler has to die....he will end up on a beach somewhere making baby fiddles and strings with a nice hormonica....

[Lady Atheilen]

Karsa may not be close to some of the overpowered characters in the books, but we are not burdened with hundreds and hundreds of pages of their POVs, either. Erikson said in the past that he made a point of using the really powerful characters' POVs sparingly, and I think that generally worked for him. It isn't Karsa himself I object to so much as his point-of-view scenes, which were all the same and not interesting.

But what do I know, I'm just a GIRL. 8-)

[Trotts]

Meh, Ive never been fond of Karsa.

No wait Karsa, that pit has an invincible demon who no one can touch ever let alone scratch.
Step aside, witness! Step aside! I have an army! Witness! Step aside!
Oh look, the demons skull is strapped to his belt

Hes like that whiny kid who wants all the super powers.

Im a Toblakai, so I have super duper strength, and and I shower in blood oil so magic cant touch me! And Im so badass that, like, I have a warren, like a personal one!

Sure he has been beaten before, but it never affects him, and its always played down. Like the FA who nearly kills him. But he basically dusts himself off the next we see him, and acts like he just had a bad hangover.


One day though....one day Ill have my Karsa Orlong melon baller...then youll all witness!

[Gothos]

Lady Atheilen;237886 said:

I enjoyed the ass-kicking scenes of everyone else. But that may be due to the fact that they actually, you know, kicked ass, instead of just being good with weapons. There's a difference.

you're not making any sense.

[Aptorian]

She might be referring to the Karsa vs KCCM fight.

[Gothos]

Karsa didn't use a weapon when fighting the Short Tail ;-)

[Aptorian]

hence the "instead of just being good with weapons part".

[Gothos]

I would've thought that the quoted post suggested that in fact Karsa Orlong does not kick ass, but is just good with weapons.

[Mcflury]

Well, the difference between having a kick-ass fight and being good with weapons is this: Karsa is very good with weapons, and thus all his fights come down to him parrying the enemy, and then just stabbing the fool to death. (well, that is at least what lady atheilen says I think) Where a kick-ass fight would be, for instance, the one with Kalam (Yeah, I know, he's good with weapons too, but just listen) where he fights that flying demon thing in Raraku desert (can't tell you what book it was since I read them all in a row and can't really hold them appart ). Kalam had some freaky hard time there, and eventually he didn't win because he was good with weapons, but he won because he just got lucky (or something like that)... I believe that's the distinction Lady Etheilen makes.

about fid making babies on a beach: now get real, that would be the ugliest babies you ever saw... not even SE is that cruel

and then about Karsa going down sooner or later: A Hood-cursed cusser in his face would be lovely... or a somewhat nobler death.. but it kinda starts to seem hard Karsa will die in a 1 on 1 fight... as I'm typing this, though, I'm kinda starting to think Karsa will sacrifice himself for the greater good eventually...

[Mentalist]

well... he's got a lot of growing to do before he's ready for that.....

Also, about Kalam: it was a demon-posessed Enkar'al in HoC.

[Where is Dassem Ultor?]

kud13;237962 said:

well... he's got a lot of growing to do before he's ready for that.....

Also, about Kalam: it was a demon-posessed Enkar'al in HoC.

Kalam's totally different from Karsa! Don't go mentioning him killing hordes of the claw just because he knew their fighting style and used it against them. Don't bother pointing out that he was bigger and stronger; we hate powerhouses that are clear victors.

By which I mean to say: paralt would probably kill Karsa too. (Not that Kalam's actually dead...)

[Mcflury]

where in Hood's name did I say Karsa was like Kalam? I was just trying to point out what Lady Atheilen probably meant... I'm not saying Kalam is a crap guy, or Karsa is a crap guy.. I like them both, in different ways...

[Gothos]

I wouldn't say his fight with either the two Deragoth or the KCNR went easy ;-)
plus, I could hardly classify the way he owned the Tiste Edur on Binadas' ship as a parry -> riposte type of fight ;-)

also, I think our friend with a very long name was quite sarcastic there.

[Mcflury]

ah, yes, good old irony... sorry, sometimes hard to get it in written language

and well, sure, Karsa has other types of fighting too... Personally I believe Karsa is one of the cooler guys to read the fights from.. Sure, Karsa might seem overpowered from time to time, but there's not much fun in reading about a fight that's been fought by some weakass guy that will definitly die as soon as he opposes something of a decent strength... so, sure Karsa might be overpowered... so what? Most characters in MBotF are overpowered anyways... even cutter has become overpowered. Honoustly, name me one character in the series that isn't somehow overpowered and that plays an important part in the 'game'.
(and yes, Fiddler or Hedge themselves might not be overpowered, but since they're using moranth munition, which is overpowered, they are overpowered too)

[Sinisdar Toste]

well theres plenty of average joe characters, but they're normally just supporting cast types, the only kind of major people that arent ridiculous are duiker, nimander(unless he shows some kahonas next book) and a few others

[Where is Dassem Ultor?]

Err yes, sorry, I temporarily shifted down into the realm of sarcasm. My frustration stems from the common complaints had against Karsa. In my own case, I don't find his fight scenes nearly so memorable as his other appearances. The point is moot; the problem with sarcasm is that, aside from amusing those who....are amused by it....I can't change anybody's mind about Karsa, and I really wouldn't want to even if I could. The different sides of the argument are what makes it interesting, after all.

[Jayblah]

Where is Dassem Ultor?;237971 said:

Kalam's totally different from Karsa! Don't go mentioning him killing hordes of the claw just because he knew their fighting style and used it against them. Don't bother pointing out that he was bigger and stronger; we hate powerhouses that are clear victors.

By which I mean to say: paralt would probably kill Karsa too. (Not that Kalam's actually dead...)

Kalam takes serious wounds that can hinder his ability and/or make him question his mortality. Evidenced by multiple encounters.

Kalam doesn't make every battle look like a complete and utter joke. Evidenced by multiple encounters. I don't much care how "exciting" Erikson wrote the KCNR (or Deragoth, or XYZ) fight and all the gory details of Karsa's wounding in said encounter. At the end of the day Karsa, happy-as-you-please, walked out of the door and instead of collapsing at Dev's feet in dire need of aid, dismisses her questions as is his wont, and proceeded on his merry way. That = "clear victor" / farcical battle to me.

Kalam has retreated in battle (i.e. he can actually show vulnerability/fear).

Kalam isn't a gigantic douchebag. See also: Kalam is personable and easily likable.

Kalam didn't woo Minala by claiming he no longer rapes women.

So yes, I am very glad that you agree Kalam is completely different from Karsa!