[Urko]

hey all... hoping to get this cleared up. my bro also reads SE and has come to me saying Paren is or will be more than just an Ascendent. this is his theary... all remember that nosey git God named The Errent and how he was an elder god but also the Master of the Holds but now as been replaced by Paren...thus giving Paren complete power, eventually leading to more than Ascention??? :confused: :confused: is this possible??? or will he need to be more if he is to truely master control of The Holds.

[Mentalist]

Paran has nothing to do with the Holds. He's the master of the Deck of Dragons, and a part-time soletaken Hound of Shadow.....

As to him becoming a God--unlikely at this stage, but who knows...

[Aptorian]

Man that post is a fuzzy.

Is Paran an ascendant yet or will he be?

Its unsure. Parans powers as the Master of the Deck certainly surpasses the power of a simple ascendant but that doesn't make him ascended. I remember something about Paran not being worried about the plague. There was also a question whether he had ascendant strength, being able to knock the two officers out in the tent.

I think he's something different.

The Errant was the Master of the Tiles, the equivelant of Parans position now. The Errant went further though, he gained a following and like Dassem, he was worshipped eventually becoming a god of chance/will/destiny. Something like Oponn but confined to the city of Lether.

Paran didn't tale the Errants place as he had vacated that position. There may even have been other Masters of the Deck all though there's no mention and a Master doesn't seem to have been needed untill now.

A war might be on the way between the Errant and Paran. The Errant, using the mortal blood of Feather Witch, plunged a dagger into the tiles somehow making a new/old connection between the old and the new, houses and holds. At the time the Errant, in his weakened desperate position, seemed ready to assail the houses. What his intentions are now by the end of RG is uncertain.

To an extent the Errant can be playing into the hands of the CG by attacking the system of the houses.

[Dancer+]

kud13;230665 said:

and a part-time soletaken Hound of Shadow.....

As to him becoming a God--unlikely at this stage, but who knows...

Paran is not a part-time soletaken...you almost sound serious here.

There have been several references to the likelihood of Paran becoming a God, as soon as he's worshipped to a reasonable standard he will attain Godship. It's not to far away with the ripples he's creating.

[SiriusL]

I think you have to have worshippers to be a god, and so far Paran doesn't have any. He might win over some of his new army, but I'm not sure of that. He'll certainly be a reluctant god if there ever was one.

[Dancer+]

Which brings up a point, Paran could refuse Godship if he wants.

Just as Rake has done in the past.

[Aptorian]

Yes, he doesn't become a god before he accepts the position, right now Paran realises he's needed as a Master. Another god isn't needed in the war.

[Aptorian]

Jen said:

um he ascended in BH...technically by the end of MoI is my guess...but his ascension was confirmed in BH.

Exact quote or it didn't happen.

[Mentalist]

Lol, as to the Ascendant question....

in MoI glossary, there's a heading Deck of Dragons (and associated ascendants)

curiously, the ascendants part is never mentioned again in any other book that I own beyond MoI. but if we take as given that that is still true, then Paran is ascendant, by the virtue of having his mae in brackets in next to an Unaligned Card, like Burn and Oponn

This makes me wonder about something haven't though for a while-wWhat about Beru--the "lord of storms"? with a title like that, and drawing parallels to earthly mythologies (Zeus, Perun of the Slavic folklore, etc), you'd expect to see more of someone who quite clearly seems to be an elemental power (an EG, perhaps?)

[Mentalist]

Aptorian;230686 said:

Exact quote or it didn't happen.

lol, sorry for double-posting but... pg 309

Apsalar:Paran
Paran: yes?
A: Are you now ascended?
P: I don't know. Nothing feels different. I admit Im not even sure what ascendancy means.

Interpret this as you may, lol. this is what a rough look brought up, but i'll keep looking...

[Aptorian]

What MoI copy do you have? Mine is the one with the T'lan Imass siege on a stronghold and there's no mention of paran in the list of houses, ascendants and unalligned.

There's tons of Ascendants mentioned in the lists. Mowri, Jhess, gedderon, nerruse, etc. Just because you don't hear about them doesn't mean they are not there. Think of the QoD which we first see in BH.

Edit:

That quote doesn't say he's an ascendant. It doesn't say much at all. I still don't remember any clear cut evidence he's an ascendant.

[Folken]

okay so i deleted my post...apt...ur too quick.

Anyways he's ascended...trust me...god. He was on the verge of it in MoI and his antics in BH confirm he's ascended he just doesn't know it yet.

[Aptorian]

I win :folken:

It would be logical for Paran to be an ascendant, it's just not been said outright. As I said above I think he's more than an ascendant or perhaps outside that system.

Then again, it would seem he can make people ascend just by sneezing, so if he wants to be one, he is one.

[Folken]

Aptorian;230698 said:

...it's just not been said outright...

To U
...and he's not outside the system he IS the system.

[Mentalist]

Aptorian;230698 said:

I win :folken:

It would be logical for Paran to be an ascendant, it's just not been said outright. As I said above I think he's more than an ascendant or perhaps outside that system.

Then again, it would seem he can make people ascend just by sneezing, so if he wants to be one, he is one.

NO, I WIN!!!!!


tBH, page 475, Ganath talking to Paran

"You are newly ascended........ and i'm not gonna bother writing the whole paragraph-long quote down.,b/cthat's the important part

lol, this just made my day

[Aptorian]

You lie?! I'm gonna dig my copy out. I can't stand for this.

EDIT: LIAR! On p. 451 Ganoes and Ganath departs. I am invincible! *said in my best russian villian accent*

[q21]

I agree with Jen that it seems pretty certain that Paran is ascendant, and according to Ganath he is. Just being Master of the Deck, though, doesn't grant ascendancy. As for being a god: for that you need a decent number of, not just followers, but worshippers. As far as we have seen no one is actually worshipping Ganoes and probably won't start until he wants it, which is highly unlikely - he's not exactly what you'd call power hungry.

That said, if at some point he feels that godhood would would be vital for him to bring whatever plans he has to fruition I doubt that he would hesitate from seeking some worshippers. At the moment though I believe that his view that the war doesn't need any more gods than it has already.

[Mentalist]

q21, see my previous post--there is clear-cut proof. Ganath said so, and I always trust the word of a world-weary Jaghut.

she also mentions something VERY interesting:
"The Errant's enemy was ennui, stagnation. This is why the FA sought to anhihilate him. And all his mortal followers".
now, htis suggest that we might see a resurgence of FA coming in to deal with the forces of "neutrality, as Ganth describes it? Could we see something Gem and LHTEC (me included) would dread--an alliance b/w Paran and the Errant against the FA?

also, about the whole godhood thing:
pg 964
"High Fist, Rythe Bude asked, "did you just save the world?"
and he doesn't exactly deny it... Now I dunnno about you, but being led to battle by a man who saved the world before my eyes would definitely make me consider worshipping him...

[Aptorian]

Kud13: Paran isn't even in the chapter your page refers to. Paran and Ganath depart 20-30 pages before that.

[Dancer+]

I agree with Kud's take on the whole thing