[Lister of Smeg]

Rereading BH has made me more and more intrigued about this place. It has been ruled by the same people, the Three, for a thousand years; it is isolationist, so virtually no one has heard of it; and the threat of the Three was enough to scare Kellanved and Dancer away after one visit.

Who are the Three? And do you think we'll get to visit Shal-Morzinn in SE's books? Or will ICE cover them?

My theory, which I think I may have mentioned before on this board, is that the Three are Tiste Liosan. They're well-known for being rather isolationist (they hardly ever, if ever, leave Kurald Liosan), and Fist Rythe Bude, a Morzinnian (is that the word? it is now), says that when people die in Shal-Morzinn, their lungs are filled with oil and set alight, so the soul can fly free. The Liosan live in a fiery realm, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that this mirrors their death rites.

Not sure how this would link in to the rest of the story, but I quite like the theory. And as for how they came to rule Shal-Morzinn? No idea. Maybe they were refugees from the Just Wars.

Any thoughts?

[Skywalker]

I thought the Shal Morzinn peoples were Tiste Edur enslaved by humans...

The "Three" that rule may be more than human, but it enraged Rhulad to know that humans had made a subservient slave class out of other Edur...

[Lister of Smeg]

That was Sepik, not Shal-Morzinn.

[Skywalker]

Lister of Smeg;229751 said:

That was Sepik, not Shal-Morzinn.

Awww... me made booboo.

Sorry bout that!

[q21]

I'm also realy intrigues by what's going on in Shal-Morzinn. If the three scared Kelly and Dancer off they have to be pretty badass. Or maybe they made some sort of agreement with the terrible twosome which will dra them into the action (in SE or ICE books) at a later stage.

[One of the Three]

This is one of those SE'isms that I so love about these books. Having read NoK as well it looks like ICE will be dropping similar one-liners hinting at possible intriguing sub-plots.

As you can tell by my name tag , I certainly hope we'll find out more about these mysterious rulers. It strikes me as unlikely that this will be through SE unless as has been suggested the Three have already secretly aligned themselves with Kellanved and Dancer (I thought this possible too), since as I've already said I think this is just another example of a clerverly placed throwaway remark leading to speculation and interest.

Hopefully we might find out more in a future ICE book. I live in hope as always with anything Malazan-related, and count myself lucky that I am so rarely dissapointed.

[Silencer]

I read as the Three were scared by the Twist (imperial flagship). I'll find the quote later, but it was something like; the sight of that mighty ship alone was enough to make the Three quake...
To me that doesn't make it sound like Kel and Dancer were scared...

[Abyss]

Silencer;229864 said:

...To me that doesn't make it sound like Kel and Dancer were scared...

Not remembering, but the Perish certainly didn't want to have at S-M.

- Abyss, also vaguely recalls ref in RG that the Edur got spanked there, but not certain.

[Ereko]

Yeh just re-reading RG at the moment and Twilight is musing about the places the fleet had been!She notes Shal-Morzin as one of the places the edur fleet had serious opposition.

[Silencer]

Don't get me wrong here, guys.
I'm not saying that the Shal-Morzinn are weak. I'm just pointing out that the original poster's claim that Kel and Dancer were scared off might be inaccurate...

[Jimmy]

I remember the bit where they were reluctant to attack the twist as well. Where, no idea.

Where the Perish just not wanting to lose any allies as they believe that they'll need everyone that they've got and more. Rather than losing alot in a senseless battle?

[Rat Mentor]

These quotes may help...

BH page 525, Paran talking to Fist Rythe Bude..

" I left Shal-Morzinn...in haste. On A Blue Moranth trader. Money for passage ran out in a town called Pitch, on the Genabarii coast. From there I made it to Nathilog, and with a belly too empty to let me think straight, I signed up"

"Where had you intended to go?"

She made a face. "As far as my coin would take me, fool. Crossing the Three is not a recipe for a long life. Blessings to Oponn's kiss, they didn't come after me."

"The Three?"

"The rulers of Shal-Morzinn ... for the past thousand years. You seemed to recognise the empire's name, which is more than most."

"I know nothing beyond the name itself, which is found on certain Malazan maps."

She croaked a laugh. "Malazans. Knew enough to make their first visit their last."

"I wasn't aware we'd vivisted at all," Paran said.

"The Emperor. And Dancer. The imperial flagship, Twist. Gods, that craft alone was sufficient to give the Three pause. Normally, they annihilate strangers as a matter of course - we trade with no-one, not even Nemil. The Three despise outsiders. Were they so inclined they would have conquered the entire continent by now, including Seven Cities."

Also, page 729 of the BH. The Perish talking to the Adjunct..

"Three sorceror kings," Destriant Run'Thurvian said, "rule Shal-Morzinn. They will contest our passage, Adjunct Tavore Paran, and this cannot be permitted."

"We would seek to negotiate," the Adjunct said. "Indeed, to purchase supplies from them. Why would they oppose this?"

"Because it pleases them to do so."

"And are they formidable?"

"Formidable? It may well prove," the Destriant said, "that even with the assistance of your sorcerors, including your Hige Mage here, we will suffer severe, perhaps devastating losses should we clash with them. Losses sufficient to drive us back, even to destroy us utterly."

[Veilside]

Well, in NoK there's quite a few places where Kellanved is described as being extremely powerful, as is Dancer, so maybe the three were not prepared to attack the Twist purely because they might suffer losses. And both Kellanved and Dancer obviously detected that the confrontation might not be one they'd get out alive from. so they decided not to try the place again.
Everything else just hints that they're bad arse though.

Entirely speculation at this point though, It'd be nice to hear more about them in future books though.

[Silencer]

Ah, thanks for those quotes Rat Mentor.
So, basically the two powers kind of decided; rather than hurt each other in a pointless battle, we'll just forego our usual policy of "kill anyone who comes here" , and you won't try and conquer us in the future....
Basically, the Shal-Morzinn Three didn't like the look of the Twist, and Kellanved was smart enough to see that they might be an empire powerful enough to give him REAL trouble. Although I do get the impression that both the people in those quotes are kind of talking the Three up a bit. Fist Rythe Bude may be terrified of the Three, but I don't think she really has a true sense of the power scale, and the Perish hadn't exactly seen Quick do his dragon thing yet.
Still, it would be truly interesting to get a better insight to this nation, preferably in the form of a book or three.

EDIT: Just a thought, if Quick and co would still suffer losses, what if you got Kellanved, Quick Ben, Tayshcrenn and a couple of hundred regular mages in one place, then attacked the Three??
Of course, why would the Twist give them pause, unless there were some people on it who were powerful? (Not to forget about the Twist's "Resident demon" of course).

[Spindrift]

This sort of thing is one of the reasons i get so enthralled with SE's worldbuilding. In a lot of other (otherwise good) fiction you get the feeling that every person and place of significance is involved in the story, consequently the world generally feels a little shallow. It's good to be reminded that theres other stuff going on, that the world is alive beyond the focus of the our story.

Silencer;229999 said:

seen Quick do his dragon thing yet.

have i missed something?

[Brys Beddict]

I think Silencer is mentioning how Quick went on a mini-rampage and started kicking the hell out of a couple dragons near the end of RG. Only thing is, Quick was able to do that only because of his fight with Icarium at the end of BH. In RG he's talking about how he got so much more powerful and its because Iccy stressed him out so much. Pre-Iccy fight, Quick was still a powerhouse, but I don't think he would've been able to cause as much damage when they discuss the Shal-Morzinn.

[q21]

Quick Ben has made a habit of blowing up dragons, something the Perish weren't aware of. But, then again, he may not have been capable of that kind of power by that stage.

[Aptorian]

Silencer;229999 said:

EDIT: Just a thought, if Quick and co would still suffer losses, what if you got Kellanved, Quick Ben, Tayshcrenn and a couple of hundred regular mages in one place, then attacked the Three??
Of course, why would the Twist give them pause, unless there were some people on it who were powerful? (Not to forget about the Twist's "Resident demon" of course).

The Twist could have given them pause because of its size and design. The three being impressed with Malazan shipbuilding and warcraft.

There's nothing to suggest why there should be a fight between the three and anyone else. The Three are as mentioned above isolationists.

Also comparing Shadowthrone to any of the other mages, even Tay, is silly. Shadowthrone is the god of Shadow, he doesn't need to tap into a warren, he is the warren.

[Veilside]

Aptorian;230156 said:

The Twist could have given them pause because of its size and design. The three being impressed with Malazan shipbuilding and warcraft.

There's nothing to suggest why there should be a fight between the three and anyone else. The Three are as mentioned above isolationists.

Also comparing Shadowthrone to any of the other mages, even Tay, is silly. Shadowthrone is the god of Shadow, he doesn't need to tap into a warren, he is the warren.

He wasn't shadowthrone at that point in time though.

[Aptorian]

No but Silencer was getting into some kind of what if fight scenario with the players we know now. For all we know, QB wasn't even born when Kellanved and Dancer encountered the Threes empire.