[Vengeance]

Ok, I was going over yet another reread of BH and stumbled upon this little gem. The context is just before the Adjunct sends Bottle ashore to find Withal. Right after Oppon has cast the dice to see if fiddler lives or dies.

"'Grub and three friends, playing in a cave. A Soletaken with a stolen sword. Togg and Fanderay and damned castaways...'
Trapped since Fiddler's reading in a small closet-sized cabin on the Froth Wolf, Bottle worked the finishing touches on teh doll nestled in his lap. The Adjunct's cammands made no sense - but no, he corrected with a scowl, not the Adjunct's. This - all of this - belonged to that tawny - eyed beauty, T'amber."

Ok so my question is this, Who is the Soletaken with a stolen sword? When I first read this I thought that it had something to do with Fiddler's game. But I have been through the game several times and there is nothing about "A Soletaken with a stolen sword." I thought that it might be Stormy, but his sword isn't stolen, it was given to him to keep, and he isn't (as far as we know) a soletaken. SO then I thought about all of the Soletaken that we know who has a sword, Well traveller, sword not stolen, Rake, don't know if sword was stolen or not, Probably. The other thing is that since it wasn't mentioned in Fiddler's game and SE seems to come out and say that "all of this - belonged to that tawny - eyed beauty, T'amber" I take that to mean that the E'resal gave Bottle information about things that he has to do, or that will happen. Thoughts ideas, if this has already been addressed in another thread, please point me in the direction.

-Vengeance always likes to have people think...

[Dolorous Menhir]

Rake took Dragnipur from Draconus, and then killed him with it. I think that satisfies the definition of "stolen".

Can't think of any other candidates.

Karsa's not a Soletaken, and he didn't steal his sword, he made it.

Traveller's not a Soletaken as far as we know, and it's hard to portray taking Grief from Andarist's lifeless hands as theft.

We don't know where Tool got his sword, but it's highly unlikely that he stole it and he's not a Bonecaster, so not a Soletaken.

Paran. Wait, this could work. He took Lorn's Otataral sword and is (kind of but not really) a Soletaken Hound. Iffy on the theft and Soletaken counts, but it's closer than the rest bar Rake.

Silchas Ruin - Soletaken, but was given his swords by the Ceda, via Brys.

Any other candidates?

[Vengeance]

I thought that Kilva made Tools sword in MOI at least his new one. He droped the old one in the beast warren. As you said he isn't a soletaken anyway. I think that Rake is the best fit, although it could be someone we haven't met yet.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Vengeance;225893 said:

I thought that Kilva made Tools sword in MOI at least his new one. He droped the old one in the beast warren.

You're probably right about that, I'd actually forgotten about him throwing away the old sword.

I was still thinking about his first First Sword sword.

[Vengeance]

Dolorous Menhir;225903 said:

You're probably right about that, I'd actually forgotten about him throwing away the old sword.

I was still thinking about his first First Sword sword.

I thought that Kilva mentions that she made Tools First Sword sword too.

[Aptorian]

My money is on Rake.

Quote

Togg and Fanderay and damned castaways...'

This is referring to the perish and withal and friends, right?

[Vengeance]

That is what I thought. But here is the other thing. "Grub and his 3 friends' come into play in BH, along with "Togg and Fanderay and damned castaways..," The only action involving a sword (other then the battles) is with Stormy...Icaruim doesn't count, seeing as though he isn't a soletaken..

So what is Bottle referring to, and just how far ahead is the E'resal looking.

[tharinock]

my gut instinct says paran. he is sort of soletaken and sort of stole sword, but for some reason just popped to mind. maybe its the whole master of the deck, center of everything aspect of him.

[Lucky 13]

I think the key part to focus on is the sword, not the soletaken. Dragnipur is the only one that really fits the bill.

[Vengeance]

Plus Adjunt Lorn died, so Paran couldn't have really stolen the sword from her. And that particular sword is broken into little pieces, the piece that Paran had was used to kill Poliel.

[tharinock]

Rake is a good guess definitely, but in the infamous words of Robert Jordan: RAFO (Read and find out)

[BridgeBurner]

Rake's offspring are among those being picked up, which could refer to future happenings. Grub's 3 friends are the Nachts accompanying Withal.

[Skywalker]

Vengeance;225880 said:

"'Grub and three friends, playing in a cave. A Soletaken with a stolen sword. Togg and Fanderay and damned castaways...'

Trapped since Fiddler's reading in a small closet-sized cabin on the Froth Wolf, Bottle worked the finishing touches on teh doll nestled in his lap. The Adjunct's cammands made no sense - but no, he corrected with a scowl, not the Adjunct's. This - all of this - belonged to that tawny - eyed beauty, T'amber."

My guesses are:

Grub and friends: Wasn't Grub always playing with Bent and Roach? No idea who the third friend is... maybe the Eresal? But that does not compute, since T'amber was the Eresal.
Soletaken: Rake. I think Paran tells us in TB that he isn't a soletaken. Round about the Poliel killing scene.
Castaways: This has to be Withal and Co. BUT - what if it is Spite and Mappo and the other Mekhar and the simpleton? Would be interesting.

[thesalus]

My impression was that the three friends of Grub were the Nachts.

"'He's got three friends living in the caves in the cliff and here are their cards-' Three more skidded out to just beyond the centre of the table. 'Crown, Sceptre, Orb. Hmm, let's ignore those for now.'

According to GotM
Orb: Judgement and true sight.
Crown: Wisdom and justice, as it is upright.
Sceptre:

Quote

‘Bhoka’ral. Nachts. Name them as you will. As I have. The one making the nest is Pule, a young male. This particular nest has taken almost a week - see how he obsesses over it, adjusting twigs just so, weaving the seaweed, going round and round with a critical eye. The older male, over there and watching Pule, is Rind. He’s moments from hilarity, as you’ll see. The female preening on the rock is Mape. You’ve arrived at a propitious time, lad. Watch.’
The nest-builder, Pule, had begun backing away from the intricate construct on the verge, black tail flicking from side to side, head bobbing. Fifteen paces from the nest, it suddenly sat, arms folded, and seemed to study the colourless sky.
The female, Mape, ceased preening, paused a moment, then ambled casually towards the nest.
Pule tensed, even as it visibly struggled to keep its gaze on the sky.
Reaching the nest, Mape hesitated, then attacked. Driftwood, grasses and twigs flew in all directions. Within moments, the nest had been destroyed in a wild frenzy, and Mape was squatting in the wreckage, urinating.
Nearby, Rind was rolling about in helpless mirth.
Pule slumped in obvious dejection.

Quote

Off to one side, two of the Nachts, Rind and Pule, were fighting over a piece of driftwood that was falling apart with their efforts. Their games of destruction had become obsessive of late, leading the Meckros weaponsmith to wonder if they were in fact miming a truth on his behalf. Or the isolation was driving them insane. Another kind of truth, that one.
...
Withal sighed. He glanced over at the two Nachts. Their contested driftwood was a scattering of splinters lying between them. Both were staring down at it, bemused, poking fingers through the mess.

Quote

Mape lay on the knoll like something dead, but the Nacht’s head slowly turned as Withal and Rhulad strode into view. She had stolen a hammer from the smithy some time back, to better facilitate her destruction of Pule’s nests and now carried it with her everywhere. Withal watched askance as the gnarled, black-skinned creature lifted the hammer into view, eyes still fixed on him and the Tiste Edur, as if contemplating murder.
Of the three Nachts, Mape made him the most nervous. Too much intelligence glittered in her small black eyes, too often she watched with something like a smile on her apish face. And the strength the creatures had displayed was sufficient to make any man worried. He knew Mape could tear his arms from his shoulders, were she so inclined.

But I've not the slightest idea how to match them up. Sceptres seem to be a symbol of authority as much as destruction (a la NoK's ships and RG), which makes me believe it is Mape. But she's the one carrying out the judgement as well as being the most intelligent of the 3 - which lends me to believe that she might be Orb. If this is the case, then perhaps Rind is wise in not attempting to build a nest with the bickering being a sign of his capricious nature. Hence, Crown. Justice present in the splinters of driftwood.

I don't know.

[tharinock]

maybe the intelligence hints that mape is soletaken?
also, wasn't crokus's old pet nacht, i believe he was named moby, a soletaken?
We can also assume that bent and roach are soletaken, it seems pretty obvious to me that they are the two shadow hounds that rake killed.

[Skywalker]

tharinock;235550 said:

We can also assume that bent and roach are soletaken, it seems pretty obvious to me that they are the two shadow hounds that rake killed.

Whoa there! Achtung! Alert! Alarm!

Crazy theory detected

[Fiddler]

uhh yeah, alarm, same book goes on to intimate that the hounds of shadow are exactly that, the shadows of the deragoth. And that when Paran freed the two from the sword it reunited those two shadows with their owners, thus freeing them from the jaghut underworld place he went with the trygalle trade guild. Basically, Shadow hounds that get caught by the deragoth end up returning their power to the deragoth and getting kind of absorbed into them. dunno if it's right or not, but sounds right to me.
Making Bent and Roach, just dogs healed by mappo's elixirs at the end of DG.

[lundymicron]

I've got about 150 pages left in HoC to read, but the first time I saw mention of Grub, I immediately thought he was the sole-taken form of Coltaine, reborn.

Or is that something that's already known, and I haven't read it in the Malazan forums yet?

Or am I way off?

[Mcflury]

I'm pretty sure Grub isn't actually Coltaine... especially since (so I heard) SE said Coltaine would not re-appear in the series (yes, I know, pittyfull at first thought, decent at second ).

[lundymicron]

Well when you think about it, Tattersail hasn't re-appeared in the series either.

Yea, I'm probably reaching...