[SiriusL]

I haven't finished RG yet--I just got to the part where they retrieved the Finnest and Ruin stabbed Kettle.

Quote

You speak of a spear of ice, of Omtome Phellack's very core, still living, still powerful. That spear, Silchas Ruin, casts a shadow, and it is within that shadow that you will find what you seek.

Doesn't this just refer to the fact that the Non-Death World where Rud Ellale (and the Finnest) lived was adjacent to the mysterious Jaghut underworld?

I'm still not really clear on the details of that--how did Hedge get from what appeared to be the Nascent to this ice world where the Lord of the Ice Hold (Hood?) was frozen on a throne, and then on to the Imass non-dreamy dreamworld of the Finnest? How is this all related to Omtose Phellack?

[cerveza_fiesta]

SiriusL;219376 said:

I haven't finished RG yet--I just got to the part where they retrieved the Finnest and Ruin stabbed Kettle.

Doesn't this just refer to the fact that the Non-Death World where Rud Ellale (and the Finnest) lived was adjacent to the mysterious Jaghut underworld?

I'm still not really clear on the details of that--how did Hedge get from what appeared to be the Nascent to this ice world where the Lord of the Ice Hold (Hood?) was frozen on a throne, and then on to the Imass non-dreamy dreamworld of the Finnest? How is this all related to Omtose Phellack?

see my post from a little while back

http://malazanworld....read.php?t=8379

we discussed it a bit

[tiam]

Aptorian;218219 said:

I don't think it's that simple. The ritual was ment to wipe away the scene of the battle with the KCCM and the betrayal of Ruin.

This was way North-west that took place. The Awl plains lay far to the east. It's not certain that the ice came that far. Why should it?

About the times of the Exodus, I also thought that it was an indication that we don't hear of "thriving" civilizations of Jaghut. I think they had still to rise to their glory before the wars begin with the Imass.

I always think of the time of the betrayal as around 400-500.000 years ago.

Actually theres a quote from Scabby at the betrayal saying the jaghut are scattered and few and dismisses the Imass as no threat. This suggests before the ritual and after the jaghut dominance.

Also wasnt Gothos ice described as a spar not a spear.

Anyway i think SR flinch was simply that he knows the Imass will come back for there weapons. Remember in HOC wen Trull didnt steal the weapons because it had an esence of the life an Imass in it or something to that extent. Maybe the Ruin flinched because he didnt want the whole 4000 Imass on Lether after him although they did go to the refugium.

[Anomandaris Purake]

WAAAAAYYYYY of topic, but i was reading this and remebered toc thinking about how the only reason the jaghut could use omtose phellack was because togg was stuck in the warren of and so couldnt stop them but he would have if he could. So in essence they stole the power of winter. I think its in MoM somewhere. now im waiting to get killed for posting on the wrong thread hehehehe

[Aptorian]

Anomandaris Purake;223684 said:

WAAAAAYYYYY of topic, but i was reading this and remebered toc thinking about how the only reason the jaghut could use omtose phellack was because togg was stuck in the warren of and so couldnt stop them but he would have if he could. So in essence they stole the power of winter. I think its in MoM somewhere. now im waiting to get killed for posting on the wrong thread hehehehe

That's interesting... could you give us a quote?

I've never given the "Wolves of Winter" title much thought.

[Anomandaris Purake]

WAAAAAYYYYY off topic, but i was reading this and remebered toc thinking about how the only reason the jaghut could use omtose phellack was because togg was stuck in the warren of chaos and couldnt stop them, but would have if he could. about how they stole the power of true winter. i think its somewhere in MoM. Now waiting for verbal abuse for veering off topic.

[Aptorian]

double post much?

Also there's no abuse for posting interesting details unknown.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Anomandaris Purake;223686 said:

WAAAAAYYYYY off topic, but i was reading this and remebered toc thinking about how the only reason the jaghut could use omtose phellack was because togg was stuck in the warren of chaos and couldnt stop them, but would have if he could. about how they stole the power of true winter. i think its somewhere in MoM. Now waiting for verbal abuse for veering off topic.

That does ring a bell. It's almost certainly somewhere in MoI.

[Mentalist]

hmmm.. this is very crazy treory-like, but.....

Spoiler

Could the "living heart" of OP somehow be related to the "alien" iceberg from NoK? I realize that it is in Quon Tali, and it is supposed to be from another world, but maybe, by dragging into Wu, the Jaghut have invested a significant portion of their power into it, and once their primary power (Ice Hold) was weakened and Hood? moved on to HHD, the iceberg is the last place of true power of OP?

[Aptorian]

kud13;224105 said:

hmmm.. this is very crazy treory-like, but.....

Spoiler

Could the "living heart" of OP somehow be related to the "alien" iceberg from NoK? I realize that it is in Quon Tali, and it is supposed to be from another world, but maybe, by dragging into Wu, the Jaghut have invested a significant portion of their power into it, and once their primary power (Ice Hold) was weakened and Hood? moved on to HHD, the iceberg is the last place of true power of OP?

I think the heart, or a significant portion of OP, was moved into burns realm during MoI to slow the infection in her flesh.

[Malaclypse]

Anomandaris Purake;223684 said:

WAAAAAYYYYY of topic, but i was reading this and remebered toc thinking about how the only reason the jaghut could use omtose phellack was because togg was stuck in the warren of and so couldnt stop them but he would have if he could. So in essence they stole the power of winter. I think its in MoM somewhere. now im waiting to get killed for posting on the wrong thread hehehehe

No, you're going to get killed for not checking your supposed sources. If this is an interesting subject for you, why would you not try to find a quote that supports your opinion? That being said, you'll fit in just fine here

[Lisheo]

I think the quote is during Toc's insanity period in MoI. I vaguely remember him ranting that the Jaghut know nothing of true winter.
So does that mean that OP was originally beast aspected? The Wolves of Winter were the King and Queen of the Ice Hold? (Or Ice Wandering, if that was the case).
Yeah, Pannion was transported into Burn's realm with his sister to bring the heart of OP there to slow the infection.