[Tamilyrn]

I was reading Brandon Sanderson the other week and one of the things I liked the most about the books was the new and unique system of 'magic'. Curious to know which authors you feel have the best take on this:

Robert Jordan - Twist on the Elemental theme, weaving.
Steven Erikson - warrens, holds and gods tie in.
Brandon Sanderson - eating metals !
Katherine Kerr - Gealic/Celtic mysticism
David Eddings - Will and the Word
Raymond Feist - god gift but explain nothing.
Weis/Hickman - gods and alignment (dragonlance) / Runes (deathgate cycle)
L.E. Modessitt - Chaos, Order and Balance.
Moira Moore - Sources and Shields
etc..



I tend to prefer the magical fantasy to the pure swordsman so I'm hoping to pick up a few new authors from this ;-)

[Shryval]

Hey good thread topic btw.

Though the books are flawed in many ways, I enjoyed the magic systems in R Scott Bakkers 'Prince of Nothing' series, especially the difference between those who practiced the Gnosis (which required not only the correct spoken language but also the correct mental language and was direct and very powerful) and the other system (that I can't remember the name of) employed by the Scarlet Spires where they had to use abstraction - ie to make fire, they had to conjure a dragon's head image to cough up the fire.

[Silencer]

Yeah - definately a good thread!

I personally prefer Steven Erikson's magic system (and I'm not just saying this because it's on the Malazan forums either!); it's freeform, while at the same time it has restrictions based on skill, but there are ways to overcome these. You also get different 'types' of mages - Quick Ben (in the earlier books) compared to Tay.

[Binder of Demons]

I'd also have to say that Erikson books have my favourite magic systems of the books I've read. It seems so variable, and I like that there are old and new magics etc.

I haven't really read too much other fantasy, and it's been a long time since i read them so I can't help much. I have read some Terry Brooks novels many years ago, but I can't remember anything specific about the magic in them. Same goes for Ursula LeGuin's Earthsea books. I'm sure others here could explain that magic system too. All I know is that both of those authors will seem very simplistic having read Erikson's work.

I tend to read science fiction mostly, but a few of those authors have also turned their hand to fantasy at times.
I do remember there being magic in Greg Bear's book, Songs of Earth and Power (magic which is based on music and song surprisingly!!).
There is a different take on magic and science in Micheal Swanwick's, The Iron Dragon's Daughter.

There is going to be more magic in George R.R Martins books I think but I couldn't really say what "type" of magic that will be.

Good thread, and I look forward to seeing what suggestions people come up with.

[Tamilyrn]

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I do remember there being magic in Greg Bear's book, Songs of Earth and Power (magic which is based on music and song surprisingly!!).

Yes - and modessitt had a go at this as well with the Spellsong sage or some such. I was so put off by the idea of a 'singing battle' that I never even picked them up :-)

[Abyss]

Tamilyrn;212143 said:

Yes - and modessitt had a go at this as well with the Spellsong sage or some such. I was so put off by the idea of a 'singing battle' that I never even picked them up :-)

Heh, i remember reading TWilliams' Memory Sorrow and Thorn series and getting to almost the end of the massive three books (which was a slog at times) and arriving at a scene where MINOR SPOILER MINOR SPOILER WARNING the 'dark angry anti-social elves' and the 'light happy but depressed elves' spent a few chapters singing at each other while the humans and goblin thingies went about chopping each other up with sharp objects and basically just chucking the book aside for a month in disgust.

Overall i still think SE's warren/spirit/gods/older powers system is the most interesting.

I did like Bakker's Gnosis and other lesser systems. Also, the way the three systems (forgive me, i'm blanking: Gnosis, Spires/other schools, and the eyeless guys) were connected but different in approach.

Eddings' Will/Word system was basicaly a simplistic system for a simplistic story... it works for what it is. When you're 12 it's the most wonderfullestest thing ever. When you're 25 it's trite.

Feist (and for that matter Tolkein and most other authors (Weis, Hickman, Salvatore, Stackpole, etc) who are heavily entrenched in the post-D&D approach) tend to explain less and just have their mages do wild and crazy acts of magic and leave it to the reader to just accept it. It's a valid, if basic (heehee, see what i did there? ) approach and it works for the masses, if not those of us who have read a LOT of fantasy.

Brookes is a bit all over the place, somewhere between the Feist approach and a more complicated system involving things like 'the truth', genetic manipulation by alien plants and dudes in robes and a lot of singing... all i can really say is it works if you don't think about it too much.

Then there's Goodkind... oh, wait, excuse me while my eyes bleed out... right... say what i will (or won't) about The Terry, he did have a few interesting albeit disconnected, ideas. The positive and negative magic thing was interesting, the dreamwalker thing was believably sinister, his approaches to prophecy and war wizards and especially the Confessors... hell, even, forgive me... the Mord Sith... were fairly original at times. Unfortunately his writing makes my eyes bleed so i can't really get through a book past the first couple of heavily stained pages.

Modesitt was okay. He tried to do some intersting things with Order and Chaos, including not being absolute in terms of good and evil, i just found he was never that clear/consistent about what exactly his wizardy types could or could not do beyond what was convenient for the plot.

I have rather liked Abercombie's approach thus far. His wizards are potentially VERY powerful, but for the fact that they can pretty much explode at any given point.

That's not all that different from RJ's element based system, which has had some fairly clever factors like source, relative strneghts in different elements, male and female differences and the way everything interacts.

Butcher's urban fantasy Dresden series is fairly wide open in approach to magic. The system is pretty much open to anything, but he makes it clear there are limits and his characters do exhaust themselves and are not uber-omni-powerful, and he's relatively consistent in setting limits and making it clear when/why they are then surpassed.

Farland just pissed me off. He had the intrinsically interesting rune branding transfer system thing, and then just seemed to throw everything (elements, possession, random magery) but the Kitchen Sink of Doom in for good measure.

Richard Morgan's threatening to do a fantasy series. I'm fairly curious what he comes up with.


- Abyss, would settle for being able to make money fly out of my ears.

[Skywalker]

Robin Hobb's "Skill" and "Wit" magic impressed me when I read the Farseer Trilogy recently...

They're both telepathy like things, with limited power and application limited only by imagination. That's what I like about them... they are balanced, and have real limits. So you don't end up with superhero mages * coughquickbencough * or suchlike.

I understand she introduces a third system (Hedge magic) in the Liveship or Tawny Man trilogies, but haven't got around to those yet.

EDIT: Oh and who can forget Ursula LeGuin's system in Earthsea... I thought that whole 'true name' stuff was pretty charming.

Finally... I remember really liking the idea of SR Donaldson's White Gold magic (wild magic, chaotic, uncontrollable but potent) from the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant

EDIT EDIT: Uh, and nice thread man!

[Zanth13]

I loved the death gate cycle rune magic. That tattooed up patryn and the pansy sartans, awesome. Magic based off possibilities. and they were hella strong. I wish they would have used it a little more in the books, but still great. One example of coolness is when there is a big battle on a flying ship, and Haplo (the star) just freezes everyone in place where they cant move, gets what ever it was he needed (cant remember) says something sarcastic and vanishes out of there.

I like farlands endowment transfer magic, but I will agree with abyss, he should have left the other magics out.

The malazan magic is pretty original, it took me a while to grasp it, and I don’t think anyone completely understands it yet.

[paladin]

Erikson, Bakker, Jordan have already been mentioned

Rothfuss has an interesting take. my mind is fuzzy already, but its kind of scientific in nature(using elements to cause a reaction) and the way you bind them to you is very interesting. from specific instances in the book(slight spoiler), the one that sticks out the most is when he blinds his blood to someone/something to transfer body heat

[Zanth13]

ohhh I just remembered One of the cooler magic systems I have read about


The Dragon Knight series, I think it starts with the Dragon and the George and goes on for like 8 books or something, till the author dies... very kick ass magic system which i think starts to get explained in book 2

The main guy was from the future so he started writing magic formulas in his head

example: Cognac-------> H20 and turned the alcohol into water and stuff similar to that just by making the expression in his head.

Any one else catch those books.

[euol]

Great thread. Right up my alley, as one might guess.

Two I haven't seen mentioned are:

Melanie Rawn's Sunrunner books. Fantastic 'hard' magic system. (Hard meaning a system with defined rules and a scientific feel.)

David Farland's Runelords. There are a couple of magics in these books, and say what you will of the story, the forcible magic system strikes me as just downright clever. Excellent synergy with the economics and social status of the world. (Which is one of the things I look for in a good hard magic system.)

[mxlm]

Farland had an awesome magic system coupled with terrible prose, characterization, and storytelling.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Donaldson's magic is interesting, but not just because of the white gold magic. The white gold magic is great, but it is an exception. The standard magic accessible to people other than Thomas Covenant is also very good, based on an idea of Earthpower, the inherent force present in everything, which can be used and manipulated by someone with the necessary lore. Fun stuff.

[Werthead]

I'd say that Jordan's One Power was for a long time the best, most logical and interesting magic system out there, but that the Gnosis, Psukhe etc of Bakker's work has now displaced it.

Erikson's Warren system is okay and quite interesting, but a bit undefined and vague as to what it can and can't do.

Modesitt's system from the Recluce books is pretty cool, even though I'm lukewarm towards him as a writer. The Order/Chaos thing is fairly nifty.

The Fae of Celia Friedman's Coldfire books also has a lot of potential (I've only read the first book so far).

Quote

Richard Morgan's threatening to do a fantasy series. I'm fairly curious what he comes up with.

A Land Fit For Heroes will be out next summer. I'm intrigued by its potential.

[Valgard]

I agree with Bakker and Erikson's magic systems they are great. I also really like Tolkein's magic system taken from the unfinished tales silamarillion etc is great, very true to how the old anglosaxon beliefs of magic worked. All to do with weaving the magic and singing it, which I really liked.

Also Mary Gentle's magic system of miracles in Ash is brilliant.

[Abyss]

Werthead;212252 said:

...The Fae of Celia Friedman's Coldfire books also has a lot of potential (I've only read the first book so far).
...

Oooo, that's a good one. Complex but interesting system, almost sf in its function....and she's amazingly consistent with it. She does do a lot of hinting at great works without actually ever showing them, but overall this is one of my faves.

- Abyss, reps Werthead for the recall.

[Tamilyrn]

Celia Freidmans Coldfire is now on order

Until the Mistborn concept I always thought that RJ's system was the best that I had read. Now I'm keep thinking of the flexibility and potential of the 'metal burning' scheme ... it's a brilliant new idea.

Honourable mention to The Black Jewels trilogy with the idea of a 'well' of magic and people with varying abilities (jewels of a certain colour) being able only to 'dive' so deeply. Errr... not very well explained there but it's clear in the books.

Also to Gail Z Martin who wrote a book called The Summoner (I think). It was clever to have the main character gifted with an ability normally shunned in the genre.

But of them all , I have to say that Raistlin is the best character mage I've read.

[Abyss]

Curiously, no one's raised GRRM's SoIaF system... possibly because we haven't really seen it beyond a handful of hints/events and the suggestion of some fundamental/elemental conflict between fire and ice. And dragons, of course, but even there we don't know much. Still, the hints are interesting and i've always liked how he doesn't overplay that element of the story.

- Abyss, all about the tease...

[Tamilyrn]

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Still, the hints are interesting and i've always liked how he doesn't overplay that element of the story.

Actually thats been one of the things that has sacked me off the SOIAF - in places it reads like a political thesis. It's brilliantly written and I'll be in the queue for the next one but I've got fingers crossed that sorcery might take center stage a bit more.

[Abyss]

Tamilyrn;212353 said:

...but I've got fingers crossed that sorcery might take center stage a bit more.

I don't want to derail the thread so i'll just note it's been building steadily.


The David Weber WAR GOD'S OWN series had a fairly straightforward system based on life force... nice wizards use their own, bad wizards use someone else's, Gods can grant powers but the nature of the powers could vary based on the nature of the recipient. All very D&D but decently developed.

I really didn't care for JV Jones' SWORD/CAVE/CONDO/WHATEVER OF SOMETHING ICE series' system, which was so utterly vague as to be little more than a plot device.

Lynch's GENTLEMEN BASTARD series is another one that's kept the magic in the background. It seems mages they can pretty much do whatever they feel like, but are human/fallible enough to make mistakes. It's fairly wide open right now.


- Abyss, now watch me pull a rabbit out of my rabbit box...