[Zanth13]

Just want to confirm the Malazan Rank structure that I have seen so far. With a few questions added in between. please add opinions, thoughts, facts, truths, ect ect.

Enlisted
(I thought in GOTM they mentioned privates but have not seen it since)
1. Soldiers (no rank mentioned with their names i.e. Hedge, Smiles ect)
2. Corporeal (First rank of Noncommissioned officer, seems to be assistant squad leader, the Sergeant's helper)
3. Sergeant Squad leader, in charge of a squad element of soldiers.

Specialized enlisted ranks:
4. Master Sergeant: I think braventooth was his name, in charge of training of malazan soldiers. The only time this rank has been seen I believe.

Commissioned Officers
1. Lieutenant a Captains helper pretty much. I guess executive officer (XO) would be the duty title, or assistant commander.
2. Captain: have a question here; is there one CPT per company? They are the commander of there troops.
3. Colonel? Was this rank mentioned or am I imagining it, I though one was mentioned in DG, also Major might have been mentioned here.
4. Sub fist? Not sure about this one, perhaps a garrison commander.
5. Fist seems to be equivalent to a general or Division commander? In charge of a battalion size element at least.
6. High Fist: In charge of an army


Specialized ranks:
1. Adjunct: assistant to Emperor/empress. can command troops as needed.
2. Claw master: commander of the claw.

-notes that sergeant is the best rank, and that is no way biased because I am one.

[The Tyrant Lizard]

Sounds about right to me.
What I would say though, is that I think a Fist is also used as a military governer. So when the Malazans have concured a city, a Fist is left there to occupy it and rule its citizens... I Think...

[q21]

What about squad mage and high mage or would those not necesarily be ranks? Also Stormy is an Adjutant before being busted down to corporal.

[Lost Marine]

I'd figure that the mages would fit in about the same way Corpsman do in the Marine Corps. They're not in command and have their own specialized hierachy that only applies to them.

[Zanth13]

ohh yes i forgot about mages, they even might be considered similar to warrant officers also. ie, they get the respect of officers but not the responsibility, though i havent seen a mage soluted yet

Mages- seperated by power levels.
1. Cadre mage/ squad mage
2. High mage: more title of power than rank, though they probably do have authority over other soldiers, or at least other mages.

and I agree with the above post about Fist being in charge of occupied cities, good call on that, though I always felt that they were more in chagre of the soldiers left there, to insure order while a new managment is created malazan style, from the populace.

[Crop]

You also have Admiral(Admiral Nok)
Oh, and Detorian used tobe a master sergeant or Drill sergeant(i don't remember which)
First sword is a military rank as well, the supreme comander of the Malazan armies i seem to recall:)

[Dolorous Menhir]

That's a good round-up.

As far as Captains are concerned, Faradan Sort would be a good guide. She seems to command a large number of Sergeant-level squads, but I'm at a loss to how the function she serves differs from how Lieutenant Ranal commanded roughly the same squads - especially since she seems to act without a Lieutenant under her.

Sort also seems to have no officer tier between her and the Fists. Correct?

Other ranks: Admiral, but we've had little exposure to the naval side of the military.

How mages fit in? They seem to form their own squads, which have their own equivalent of Sergeants - Cadre Leader, for example Tattersail in GotM. They seem to report directly to the High Mage or Fist, if the briefing before Pale in GotM is a good guide. Tattersail seemed to be entitled to give orders to Sergeants and lower soldiers, but that may have been a courtesy rather than a formal command structure.

And the High Mage? Tayschrenn seemed to have a great deal of authority over all military figures in GotM, rivalling High Fist Dujek. Perhaps that derives from his position as Imperial High Mage though, and other High Mages (such as Bellurdan) would have no particular control over normal military operations.

[Zanth13]

Quote

And the High Mage? Tayschrenn seemed to have a great deal of authority over all military figures in GotM, rivalling High Fist Dujek. Perhaps that derives from his position as Imperial High Mage though, and other High Mages (such as Bellurdan) would have no particular control over normal military operations.

true story, tayschren had allot of authority, but I think your right, in that he is the Lead high mage, allot of his power might have come from him being a good politician i.e. ties with the empress. Besides the Empress the most powerful leaders in the malazan world seem to be, and in no particular order
(talking mostly about political power/authority.
A. Imperial high mage (as seen by Tayschrenn
B. Adjunct (seen with lorn, and Tavore)
C. High Fist (Dujecks position)
D. First Sword (now vacant?)
E. Clawmaster (now vacant?)

Wow now that I put it that way, The Malazan structure resembles a house in the deck of dragons.... important at all??? Probably not lol.

Im sure normal Highmages get some kinda of kicker for being so bad ass. Im sure there word carries weight, and who wants to tell someone so powerful no, they probably have more authority during battles, or when magical stuff is actually happening, then normal day to to day routines.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Ha, I'd forgotten about the First Sword.

I hope we get to see how badly Korbolo Dom is mismanaging the Malazan military in TtH.

[Farky]

xanth13;211557 said:

A. Imperial high mage (as seen by Tayschrenn
B. Adjunct (seen with lorn, and Tavore)
C. High Fist (Dujecks position)
D. First Sword (now vacant?)
E. Clawmaster (now vacant?)

Didn't Korbolo Dom assume the position/rank of First Sword near the end of Bonehunters?

[Zanth13]

Farky;211569 said:

Didn't Korbolo Dom assume the position/rank of First Sword near the end of Bonehunters?

I think your right, though if its official or not yet, I dont know. Its a pretty heavy boast, and a dishonor to the legacy of Dassem. dude sucks, and I cant wait for some one to to give his character a terrible end.

First sword of the Malazan empire: I know dassem with that rank had allot to do with training doctrine ect. and military tactics, what else was his responsibility (though when I finish NOK, that might be answered to me)

[Dolorous Menhir]

xanth13;211570 said:

I think your right, though if its official or not yet, I dont know. Its a pretty heavy boast, and a dishonor to the legacy of Dassem. dude sucks, and I cant wait for some one to to give his character a terrible end.

I think it was official. Laseen was in a position to deny it, and she didn't. So he's the First Sword.

Quote

First sword of the Malazan empire: I know dassem with that rank had allot to do with training doctrine ect. and military tactics, what else was his responsibility (though when I finish NOK, that might be answered to me)

It just seems to be a fancy title for the most senior general, perhaps an equivalent to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs in the US. Of course Dassem Ultor was personally a great warrior, but I don't think that's essential to the role. It's more a matter of commanding battles, setting strategy. Just the final tier of military command between the High Fists and the Emperor/Empress.

Tool and Redmask are our other examples of First Swords, but it is hard to claim that the First Sword of the KCCM and Imass would have the same duties as the FS of the Malazan Empire. Those two do seem to have got the job solely on their fighting skill, not their generalship, but I'm not sure about that. Has Tool ever acted like, or spoken about being, the leader of Imass armies, rather than just their most distinguished champion (since they are not the same thing)?

[Zanth13]

Dolorous Menhir;211576 said:

I think it was official. Laseen was in a position to deny it, and she didn't. So he's the First Sword.



It just seems to be a fancy title for the most senior general, perhaps an equivalent to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs in the US. Of course Dassem Ultor was personally a great warrior, but I don't think that's essential to the role. It's more a matter of commanding battles, setting strategy. Just the final tier of military command between the High Fists and the Emperor/Empress.

Tool and Redmask are our other examples of First Swords, but it is hard to claim that the First Sword of the KCCM and Imass would have the same duties as the FS of the Malazan Empire. Those two do seem to have got the job solely on their fighting skill, not their generalship, but I'm not sure about that. Has Tool ever acted like, or spoken about being, the leader of Imass armies, rather than just their most distinguished champion (since they are not the same thing)?

Your are quite right.. Though Red Mask did have the responsibility of leading soldiers, though notable they were human, except for the 2 KCCM who obeyed him for a little while.

Tool could have lead pre ritual or used the wierd ritual communication thingy to give advice or orders, but I doubt it, Tlan Imass seem to be lead by individual clan leaders.

I think the malazan empire using that title is symbolic more than a copy of what it ment to the Imass.

still it doesnt seem right lol
Tool = bad ass
Dassem = Bad ass
Red Mask = Bad ass
Korbolo = loser/dick/f*ck up.

yes I guess The malazan first sword would make since to be the highest ranking military official (in most cases anyway)

[lfex]

I seem to remember that Commander is sometimes used as a name of a rank lower than Captain. I don't recall Colonel, but perhaps it was mentioned as well. In Bonehunters army there doesn't seem to be any rank between Captain and Fist, but perhaps it is because they are relatively small unit.

[Tremolo]

The title First Sword seems to entitle the function of being a warleader. Wasn't Redmask called a warleader?

Have you people forgotten that there are Sappers in the Malazan army? And they even have their own captains as seen in Deadhouse Gates.

[Lancelot]

Sapper is a trade not a rank, so they would just be soldiers who specialise.

[Zanth13]

Tremolo;211613 said:

The title First Sword seems to entitle the function of being a warleader. Wasn't Redmask called a warleader?

Have you people forgotten that there are Sappers in the Malazan army? And they even have their own captains as seen in Deadhouse Gates.

Again I believe Redmask as 1st sword, and warleader is really different from any malazan rank type.

Well I didn’t forget the sappers; they seem to have the same structure i.e. Corporeal, Sergeant, and Captain..... There just a specialized unit, with a different mission then the others, but same structure more or less.

Yes the bonehunters don’t seem to have any liaison between Fist and Captain I would agree, but they also have been restructured, for mission necessity, lack of people ect ect. They have become a smaller fighting unit, so such ranks might not be necessary at the moment.

There doesn’t seem to be any Senior NCO's either besides braven tooth mentioned which is funny. No Sergeant Majors, 1st sergeants. We have seen a sergeant get promoted to Captain though I think. So maybe the malazan's don’t utilize these ranks, or we just haven’t seen them yet.


Ill note that any time I say commander, I don’t use it as a rank by itself, but as a duty position. IE CPT Paran was Commander of the bridgeburners ect
.

[Called-by-the-Voices]

Guys.. I'm not that into military, and I see you all using the terms CO and NCO (comissioned and non-commisioned officers, right?)
Well, what's the difference?
And what difference does it make in the Malazan Military?

[Zanth13]

Called-by-the-Voices;211716 said:

Guys.. I'm not that into military, and I see you all using the terms CO and NCO (comissioned and non-commisioned officers, right?)
Well, what's the difference?
And what difference does it make in the Malazan Military?

Well in the Malazan world the difference is minimal I imagine. Early books mentioned officer schools, IE Paran went to one. Normally this is the only way to get commissioned, and you would start your military career as an officer usually a lieutenant, then you get promoted to Captain ect.

Other soldiers 'enlist' and come into the military with no rank pretty much, such as Hedge, but by proving themselves they can get promoted to Corporeal, and Sergeant, like Fiddler and Kalam have done (master sergeant also maybe in the malaz world)
A corporeal and sergeant would be in charge of a group of soldiers, but they are not commissioned, so they are termed Non-commissioned Officers, and are always outranked by there commissioned counterparts.

I think It was mentioned that such officer schools in the malaz world were done away with, or starting to be done away with, so it looks like Officer promotions, or looking more merit based, IE someone can go from Sergeant to Captain now if they are a hard ass, it looks like (though not conrfirmed to happen often.)

Officers get saluted such as Lieutenants, captains, fist ect
enlisted don't which includes corporeal, sergeants,and normal soldiers.

[cerveza_fiesta]

xanth13;211532 said:

Mages- seperated by power levels.
1. Cadre mage/ squad mage
2. High mage: more title of power than rank, though they probably do have authority over other soldiers, or at least other mages.

I wondered that about the high mage. I thought it marked a certain level of power rather than some kind of achieved rank or appointment to a power position.

This is because they talk about Sinn in RG being a high-mage, even though she isn't by title. Also, when QB meets up with Tayschrenn in (help me out here), Tay disses QB and says that he's a high mage by name only (or something to that effect).

But then QB seems to go against that, because he's an immensely powerful mage with access to a bunch of warrens, but is only a cadre mage early in the series, until Dujek (I think) makes him high mage.