[Mentalist]

Aptorian;233895 said:

I was certainly not expecting Rhulad to go down like that. According to MTs talk of his increase in power through death, he should have been the most evil thing ever wielding a sword.

Stupid Erikson, not staying true to the facts.

meh... You forget, it was the other way around--the sword wielded him. And it was essentially the sword that kept getting better. AND, the sword was meant for Karsa.

With all that in mind, we should be thankful that CG didn't have Rhulad fall on own sword, and then have it jump into Karsa's hand...

[Dancer+]

The sword learns from it's opponents. Let's just say Karsa's style was somewhat different to any other champion the sword had come up against previously...

[Aptorian]

The CG lies, I doubt it was originally ment for Karsa, what ever champion that arose within the house could have gotten it. The CG was just baiting Karsa.

And Rhulad did get stronger with every death, it's said somewhere. He died a hundred times or more and still wasn't able to even press Karsa? That's hard for me to swallow. I was so fucking irritated by that scene. It was cool but so unbalanced.

[Dancer+]

Aptorian;233946 said:

The CG lies, I doubt it was originally ment for Karsa, what ever champion that arose within the house could have gotten it. The CG was just baiting Karsa.

And Rhulad did get stronger with every death, it's said somewhere. He died a hundred times or more and still wasn't able to even press Karsa? That's hard for me to swallow. I was so fucking irritated by that scene. It was cool but so unbalanced.

You don't think my point compensates for this...
Rhulad's sword had not come up against a giant who was at least 8-10 foot tall with a sword as long before.
Rhulad simply could not get in reach of Karsa - that kind of takes the sting out of anyone's battle plan especially considering they have no possibilities to change their tactics because their sword is so single-minded and hasn't learn to compensate for this technique, the sword acts for Rhulad.

Rhulad was built up as a God as a challenge to draw powerful figures, it wasn't a focus on reality it was more a propaganda campaign.

I also believe that the sword was not meant for Karsa, it was a CG lie.

[Aptorian]

You are implying that Rhulad was worthless and the sword was some kind of automated ascendantguided deathmachine. Learning through observation only capable of reproducing moves it has seen. I don't believe this to be true.

The CG says that the sword has made him (Rhulas) stronger, faster and ultimatly better. You don't hear anyone talk about Rhulads sword like it is more special than its wielder. Someone from among the cast in the Eternal Domicile would have said something in the lines of "Its the sword we need to fear, not Rhulad".

And even if it was just the sword that gained skill, which I don't believe, then after hundreds of fights it should have been able to do something... anything... about Karsa.

[Dancer+]

The sword was almost irretreviably part of Rhulad.

However I still find it strange that only Karsa was able to cut his arm off, and this leads me to my next question: would Rhulad's arm have grown back after that incident if they had left the situation as it was?

Quote

You are implying that Rhulad was worthless and the sword was some kind of automated ascendantguided deathmachine. Learning through observation only capable of reproducing moves it has seen. I don't believe this to be true.

It was often quoted that Rhulad had little control over the sword especially in the beginning, Rhulad could not have perished if he had wanted to, the sword was on autopilot learning from each battle. There is a quote or two on this basis. Sure the exposure to battle increased Rhulad's prowess and his ability to become one with the sword resulting in a relatively smoother performance but in general I think the Sword is the real power behind the two of them.

Everyone was expecting Rhulad to have to die a few times before he conquered Karsa anyway, Karsa expectedly won the first battle but in the same instance he ended the war. The sword and Rhulad had no idea how to handle Karsa, although his tactics seemed fairly one-dimensional I'll give you that.

[Mentalist]

hmmm.. Rhulad fought Tarthenals before... including half-breeds that were close to Karsa's size...
but still, I totally agree with Dancer that the sword was the key...And no one really talked about it, because very few ppl in ht e Eternal Domicile knew about it--Rhulad's family and the Warlock King.. And they wouldn't share anything with the letheriii....

[Aptorian]

There were, at least earlier, large audiences there to see the emperor fight. Everyone would know of the cursed sword.

We'll have to disagree on the sword

Rhulad just getting his arm chopped off was something I thought was weird aswell. I've said it before but I thought the solution to Rhulad was a mess. Are we supposed to believe that no fighter as of yet has chopped of Rhulads hand or arm. Perhaps even after death, then carving of the emperors fingers and taking the sword for himself.

It's not like we hear any rules about what the champion can or cannot do. Was there guards to stop the fighters from just chopping Rhulad into marmalade? Like what Rhulad did to the first fighter.

[Dancer+]

That's one thing we'll have to agree on, the vagueness of the whole thing. It isn't very believable in a certain context.

If I brandish a couple of quotes in the near future I'll hope to change your mind on the sword I was just offering a perfectly reasonably explanation, in my opinion, why Rhulad couldn't handle Karsa in their first scheduled meet.

The Edur are but children compared to Karsa, and they have children specific equipment in that case. Try facing a child who has a junior sword compared to you and your huge sword and what would you expect. Just putting this into context, Karsa is perhaps 10 foot, Rhulad is likely around 6. Basically the equivalent of a 6-foot person facing a 3 and a half foot person. Rhulad has more skill than a child however but the point in its rough exterior remains the same.

[Mentalist]

Aptorian;233971 said:

There were, at least earlier, large audiences there to see the emperor fight. Everyone would know of the cursed sword.

We'll have to disagree on the sword

Rhulad just getting his arm chopped off was something I thought was weird aswell. I've said it before but I thought the solution to Rhulad was a mess. Are we supposed to believe that no fighter as of yet has chopped of Rhulads hand or arm. Perhaps even after death, then carving of the emperors fingers and taking the sword for himself.

It's not like we hear any rules about what the champion can or cannot do. Was there guards to stop the fighters from just chopping Rhulad into marmalade? Like what Rhulad did to the first fighter.

Yes... large EDUR audiences.. they wouldn't talk much to the Letherii...

We previously saw Rhulad get gutted nicely by Brys in MT... so it happened before.

If no one knew about the power of the sword, why would they grab it, instead of their own trusty "insert weapon here"

I'm not necessarily trying to defend the plausibilty of the whole thing here, just pointing out that Letherii WERE a conquered people--and the factor of an immortal emperor-conqueror would be a useful tool of subjugation. In such a case, even if it wasn't trrue, people's attention would be shifted towards the person and away from the sword.

[Silencer]

It's true - the whole thing with the sword getting cut off was mucked up. Then again, I could see it coming, and so could a lot of others here....
On the subject of Karsa's death, it would be truly ironic to see him get killed by magic! I know, this should be in a crazy theories thread, but he has been away from the blood-oil for a while.

P.S. I would have liked to see a rematch between Brys and Rhulad, it would have been epic!!!!!!

[Optimus Prime]

I don't know...the Edur are taller than humans...so lets say the normal Edur is around 6'4-6'6...so maybe Rhulad was a little taller...

I, like Apt, found that last scene somewhat strange. It seemed too easy for Karsa. Rhulad...in the end...wasn't that much of a bad ass. That actually dissapointed me.

Yeah...I said it.

[Mentalist]

I was in no way dissapointed, because in fact on a facebook thread dedicated to the Karsa v Rhulad v Icarium, I predicted that something like that would happen....

You wrote
on Jul 18, 2007 at 7:21 PM.
As much as i dislike that fact, ì'd place my money on Karsa.... He already beat Icarium and Rhulad, well, he's been masterfully beaten b4... all it takes is cutting off his arms and legs again.. and knowing Karsa he'd simply snap them off....

lol, this was me, before I got my RG (bought it in beginning of September), I was almost correct

[Sinisdar Toste]

rhulad never was a bad ass, his end didnt surprise me much, i expected karsa to finish him off easily. rhulad was totally insane, basically a child, had some skill with the sword, from experience, but the sword controlled him, evidence when it dragged him across the sand to impale karsas leg.
even if rhulad was 7' karsa still has an eight foot sword and four foot arms or longer, rhulad would only have had a chance if karsa kept killing him and killing him till he got tired. karsas to smart for that, finished him off in two strokes.

[Optimus Prime]

You know...I wanted to see Icarium fight Rhulad more than Karsa...but that was before the book when I thought Icarium had finally gotten over his psycho-state...

[Mentalist]

hmmm.. I really did NOT want to see that.
If it happened, Iccy would eventually get so mad, he'd trash half the continent and millions would die (some of them innocents)

[Aptorian]

kud13;234127 said:

hmmm.. I really did NOT want to see that.
If it happened, Iccy would eventually get so mad, he'd trash half the continent and millions would die (some of them innocents)

Yes, it would have been great.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Xander;233736 said:

Kallor and Krul have unfinished business, let's not forget.

The question is...is Kallor stupid enough to fully trust the Crippled God? Or is his desire for power and his alliance with the CG just a means for his true plans?

The latter. Duh.

Kallor makes a lot of mistakes over and over. But I doubt being too trusting is one of them.

[Optimus Prime]

Heh...you're putting your money on Kallor over the Crippled God? Interesting...although we still don't know all of the CG's proxies....

If Kallor makes it through TtH than I'm sure he'll be an established bad ass...if not..well then to quote Dolorous..."Duh." He'll be dead.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Xander;234150 said:

Heh...you're putting your money on Kallor over the Crippled God? Interesting...although we still don't know all of the CG's proxies....

No, I said that Kallor's not a moron - he's not going to trust the CG even if they are allies. Kallor's in the game for one reason alone - to benefit Kallor. Someone like that doesn't trust anyone.

That's not the same as saying Kallor's going to triumph in the end, though I have said that in the past (pet crazy theory - Kallor to follow Laseen as Malazan Emperor).