[Locke Reaper]

1. Deadhouse gates, (i have never hated someone as much as mallick rel)
2. Gardens of the moon (the unspoken history,animosity fantastic charcaters)
3. Memories of ice
4. Midnight tides
5. Bonehunters
6. Reaper's Gale
7. House of Chains

[Aptorian]

If one has to make a list, this would be mine but it's unrealistic, each one has it's own moments. they should all be number one with only Reapers Gale as nr 2... It feels rushed and half finished to me.

1. Memories of ice
2. Midnight tides
3. Deadhouse gates
4. Gardens of the moon
5. Bonehunters
6. House of Chains
7. Reaper's Gale

[Gem Windcaster]

Blegh, why does everybody have RG last? It makes me sad...

[Aptorian]

Gem Windcaster;207297 said:

Blegh, why does everybody have RG last? It makes me sad...

The thing that I really love about the other books is that everything is very neatly tied up with so many other things and everything usually adds up in the end of the book.

I didn't get that feeling at the end of RG.

What happened to Iccy, The officer and the grall dies for no reason, what was the purpose of the whole redmask/KCCM thing, what's the purpose of introducing Tool and his hidden army all of a sudden at the end of the book, what happened to "the queen" janal, what happened to Udinass, what happened to the Errant, What happened to telorast and curdle, What happened to Karsa, etc. etc. I know it all ties up with the beginning of Dusk of Dreams and it's all alligning, but SE did a better job of these things in the other books, by throwing small hints at the end of the books.

I think what really annoyed me was that I was expecting another MoI, purhaps even better, and instead we got the Irac war with a shit dictator and random ascendants running about the place. The whole solution to Rhulads immortality and the sword thing was pants, are we really supposed to believe that none of the hundred people he's thought since MT has chopped of his sword arm and then walked out of there with the sword under his arm? Why didn't the CG do more to help his little empire, say allign himself with the chancellor and actally make a real resisitance to the malazans? It was very atypical and totally different from what we were all expecting which is to SEs credit but... it was also disappointing that it wasn't going to be a real fight were it was Icarium and Ruin that took down the immortal emperor, say threw him inside the scabby azath or something.

[Urb]

Aptorian;207303 said:

I think what really annoyed me was that I was expecting another MoI, purhaps even better, and instead we got the Irac war with a shit dictator and random ascendants running about the place. The whole solution to Rhulads immortality and the sword thing was pants, are we really supposed to believe that none of the hundred people he's thought since MT has chopped of his sword arm and then walked out of there with the sword under his arm? Why didn't the CG do more to help his little empire, say allign himself with the chancellor and actally make a real resisitance to the malazans? It was very atypical and totally different from what we were all expecting which is to SEs credit but... it was also disappointing that it wasn't going to be a real fight were it was Icarium and Ruin that took down the immortal emperor, say threw him inside the scabby azath or something.

Karsa didn't just chop Rhulad's arm off and take the sword. He had to get into the Crippled God's warren to put and end to Rhulad permanently. Otherwise Rhulad would just have resurrected again. How did Karsa know what to do when noone else did? Good question

[Locke Reaper]

Karsa has met the miserable tent living god before remember so he knew how to get to the cg. But another fact was that he has learned how the emperor resurrects through the power of the sword. So what did he do he channelled all his soul baggage and opened a gateway to the bastard's island. I like the way he dismisses the CG it was effective but misleading because the CG still has something to do with Karsa even if he believes himself 'free'.

And i agree with Aptorian the book felt rushed as if the story was boring SE to a certain extent and that he needed a way to get characters to the lether continent but once there sort of ran out of steam. No offence to the man i'm no writer so can't really judge but the build up to reaper's gale was so intense that the result felt sort of empty.

[Aptorian]

I just don't buy that "Rhulad was defeated by the help of the spirits and Withal" nonsense.

Maybe there were rules setup, so that if a champion chopped of Rhulads swordhand and took the sword, he would be killed by the guard and ressurected by the K'risnan. But no such thing was mentioned, in fact rhulad seemed to be intend on there being honor in the battle and the champion being protected.

Why a champion didn't just carve Rhulads diggits of the sword and take it for himself before then I don't get and I thought it a giant flaw in the solution to the CGs power over Lether. Rhulad should either have been defeated long before RG or he should have been as unstoppable as it was suggested he would be by the end MT after a hundred or a thousand deaths. He should have been The Panion Seer and Brys/Dassem rolled up in one. And what happens, Karsa defeats him with out problems?! ... please, then the skillgain he gets after each death in MT was pure bull. I love Karsa but that should have been the sword fight of his life, no matter how strategic he can be.

Still Rhulads state in RG is of course more tragic and less what people had expected, which again is to SEs credit.

[Gem Windcaster]

Aptorian;207303 said:

The thing that I really love about the other books is that everything is very neatly tied up with so many other things and everything usually adds up in the end of the book.

I didn't get that feeling at the end of RG.

What happened to Iccy, The officer and the grall dies for no reason, what was the purpose of the whole redmask/KCCM thing, what's the purpose of introducing Tool and his hidden army all of a sudden at the end of the book, what happened to "the queen" janal, what happened to Udinass, what happened to the Errant, What happened to telorast and curdle, What happened to Karsa, etc. etc. I know it all ties up with the beginning of Dusk of Dreams and it's all alligning, but SE did a better job of these things in the other books, by throwing small hints at the end of the books.

I think what really annoyed me was that I was expecting another MoI, purhaps even better, and instead we got the Irac war with a shit dictator and random ascendants running about the place. The whole solution to Rhulads immortality and the sword thing was pants, are we really supposed to believe that none of the hundred people he's thought since MT has chopped of his sword arm and then walked out of there with the sword under his arm? Why didn't the CG do more to help his little empire, say allign himself with the chancellor and actally make a real resisitance to the malazans? It was very atypical and totally different from what we were all expecting which is to SEs credit but... it was also disappointing that it wasn't going to be a real fight were it was Icarium and Ruin that took down the immortal emperor, say threw him inside the scabby azath or something.

I understand what you are saying, but I see it completely different. RG was one of the best books for me, because of the questions asked, and also because it gave so many answers to things asked in other books. That said, I don't really see what you mean about nothing being tied off? If you compare it to the other books, event by event, you'll probably see that RG ties off much more than previous books. But then it also raises much more questions than the others. I don't see that as a bad thing.

About the CG: he doesn't really care about his minions - all he wants is power - it's possible that he went through all the trouble with Rhulad just to get another, more powerful, Emperor. Someone like Karsa. You didn't expect the CG to really care about human life did you? And why would it be so hard to believe that people didn't think of chopping off Rhulad's arm? I can think of several reasons and explanations to that. The problem is you don't want to think of an explanation, because you don't like the story. So whatever.

Ruin is a schmuck - and it wasn't his fight. This was about the Bonehunters taking down an empire. Possible with several ascendants making it happen. Icarium didn't want to fight - I would have been disappointed if he was forced to fight again. Rhulad was just a confused, tragic, kid that wasn't evil enough to be thrown into an azath. In fact, I don't see an evil dictator here at all - just the CG manipulating Rhulad - if anyone, he is the dictator. And not the usual kind either.

Besides, SE can't really answer all questions at once, can he? Then there will be no more stories to tell in the books to come. MoI my ass - that book wasn't that good.

Pfft, people should read the book again, or something.

[Abyss]

Gem Windcaster;207433 said:

...

Ruin is a schmuck - and it wasn't his fight. ...

Ruin was pissed at the events in the cave, including being denied his vengeance on Scabby. He was just looking to kill, a LOT.

Fid and co just saw an unknown dragon incoming and apprently about to barbeque a city full of victims plus the 14th. They didn't know any of the background, and even if they had, they would have done the same.

I liked the ending. I was a bit dissappointed that the scope of the finale wasn't this massive crushing mess of a convergence with Iccy losing his sh!t and Karsa on a kill spree and the sea demon cutting loose and everything, but, as with HoC, i LIKE when an author is willing to take things to the brink and then go off (logically) in another direction.

There's an anticipation element too - this would suggest that whatever massive convergence was ref'd in TB is still coming and likely to be even crazier than we expected.


- Abyss, all about the big finish.

[Gem Windcaster]

I agree, Abyss. Besides, for every big finale SE makes, he has to top it the next time he wants one - which is very hard. And yeah, I too like the unexpected to happen - I very much enjoy SE's way of writing a story. A matter of opinion no doubt.

[raest]

1. Deadhouse Gates
2. the other books

For me, they are all good with very little difference between them. Only Deadhouse Gates stands out in my mind basically because the Chain of Dogs and the Fall of Coltaine and Duiker. Absolutely heartbreaking stuff, beautifully written.

Other standout things:
Memories of Ice - Toc's imprisonment/torture

House of Chains - Karsa taking out 2 Deragoth

Midnight Tides - Bugg saving Tehol

The Bonehunters - Kalam and Apsalar absolutely destroying the Claw. What was the number she killed again? (When Shadowthrone says: "Not even Cotillion.")

Reaper's Gale - Fid and Quick Ben owning the dragons. Trull