[Tomau]

Hy, I've read first four books, but this question is still buggin' me. In the GotM Serrat was Second in command to Rake, but in MoI that is Korlat. So, what happened to Serrat? Was she the one female Tiste Andii that died saving Baruk from Vorcan?:confused:

[Tsundoku]

Yes.

Cheers,

La Sombra, minimalist

[Tomau]

Well, that's just too bad!
I was hoping to get to know her a little bit better. I mean she was second in command to Rake, mage, if i'm not mistaken, and maybe even a soletaken (her brother and sister are), and from what little we saw of her, she just seemed incompetent (not able to kill Crokus and all).
Thanks, anyway.
Just one more question: who are the other two soletaken from Moon's spawn, beside Korlat and Orfantal? I can't remember if Rake was included in those four, it's been awhile since I've read GotM.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Tomau;205724 said:

Just one more question: who are the other two soletaken from Moon's spawn, beside Korlat and Orfantal? I can't remember if Rake was included in those four, it's been awhile since I've read GotM.

That's all a bit confusing. During a conversation with Baruk, Rake spoke of his four assassin-mages and how one of their number could possibly replace him as Andii leader.

It seems obvious that three of those assassin-mages were Korlat, Orfantal and Serrat, with the fourth going unnamed.

But, there is the matter of the four black dragons who accompany Silanah during the battle with Raest. Orfantal and Korlat were almost certainly two of those dragons, but Rake and Serrat were both accounted for in the city during that attack. So if we say that those four Soletaken Eleint were the four assassin-mages that Rake spoke of, then they must be Korlat, Orfantal and two unnamed others who took part in the assault on Raest.

I can't remember how many Andii Soletaken Eleint took part in the events of MoI, but if someone can clear up how many distinct dragons there were during the battle of Coral that might help clear this up.

Also, I don't think Serrat was a sibling to Korlat and Orfantal. Those two are definitely brother and sister, but I don't remember Serrat ever being described as a blood relative to them.

[ch'arlz]

Dolorous Menhir;205758 said:

Also, I don't think Serrat was a sibling to Korlat and Orfantal. Those two are definitely brother and sister, but I don't remember Serrat ever being described as a blood relative to them.

GotM's listing of Dramatis Personae gives Korlat as "blood-kin to Serrat" but you're correct, the word 'sister' is not used. Also in USMMPB p.650, a paragraph begins "Korlat, blood-kin to Serrat..." and she says (p.651) "I am blood-kin to the fallen." when discussing with the other Andii whether to summon Rake to destroy the new Azath house.

ch'arlz

[Tomau]

ch said:

GotM's listing of Dramatis Personae gives Korlat as "blood-kin to Serrat" but you're correct, the word 'sister' is not used. Also in USMMPB p.650, a paragraph begins "Korlat, blood-kin to Serrat..." and she says (p.651) "I am blood-kin to the fallen." when discussing with the other Andii whether to summon Rake to destroy the new Azath house.

In Encyclopaedia Malazica under Korlat is said that she is 'Sister to Orfantal and Serrat' so I assumed that is correct, although that wasn't specified in the book.

[Tomau]

Dolorous Menhir;205758 said:

That's all a bit confusing. During a conversation with Baruk, Rake spoke of his four assassin-mages and how one of their number could possibly replace him as Andii leader.

It seems obvious that three of those assassin-mages were Korlat, Orfantal and Serrat, with the fourth going unnamed.

But, there is the matter of the four black dragons who accompany Silanah during the battle with Raest. Orfantal and Korlat were almost certainly two of those dragons, but Rake and Serrat were both accounted for in the city during that attack. So if we say that those four Soletaken Eleint were the four assassin-mages that Rake spoke of, then they must be Korlat, Orfantal and two unnamed others who took part in the assault on Raest.

I can't remember how many Andii Soletaken Eleint took part in the events of MoI, but if someone can clear up how many distinct dragons there were during the battle of Coral that might help clear this up.

But when Kruppe read that book with the listing of all who came to the chainin' of The Crippled God, he also said four black dragons and one red. I thought that were the same ones. So, how many are there? We are sure that Rake wasn't the one that battled against Raest, but Serrat could be one. We don't know where she was between the time when that mage from Crimson Guard attacked her and the time when she reappeared at the Baruk's place.
If I remember correctly only Korlat and Orfantal veered into dragon forms at the battle of Coral. Btw, is the dragon only form that Tiste race Soletaken can assume?

[Dolorous Menhir]

Tomau;205813 said:

But when Kruppe read that book with the listing of all who came to the chainin' of The Crippled God, he also said four black dragons and one red. I thought that were the same ones. So, how many are there? We are sure that Rake wasn't the one that battled against Raest, but Serrat could be one. We don't know where she was between the time when that mage from Crimson Guard attacked her and the time when she reappeared at the Baruk's place.
If I remember correctly only Korlat and Orfantal veered into dragon forms at the battle of Coral. Btw, is the dragon only form that Tiste race Soletaken can assume?

Hmm. I thought that Serrat was busy in the city during the attack on Raest, but I could be mistaken. Even so, it is strange that Coll would say four black dragons, when at least six dragons live there (1 red, Silanah; 5 black, the four in the Raest attack plus Rake).

We've only seen Soletaken Eleint among the Tiste races, but I don't see why they can't have other Soletaken forms. They just happen to be old enough to have had access to the blood of Tiam (not clear what this really means) at some point in the past.

[Folken]

Well who says Coll knew what he was talking about. He might have just heard of 4 but there were just more.

[Tomau]

I've reread some parts from GotM, and Coll said and Kruppe read five black dragons. So, Rake, Korlat, Orfantal, Serrat!?, and I'm thinking Horult (he was with Korlat and Orfantal chasing Vorcan, and also night-hunter, so maybe he is the fifth).
But, if these are the same ones from the chaining of the CG, how long do Soletaken live, because that was about 120,000 years in the past? And Kilava must be 300,000. Are then Soletaken immortal or very long lived?

[ch'arlz]

Tomau;205811 said:

In Encyclopaedia Malazica under Korlat is said that she is 'Sister to Orfantal and Serrat' so I assumed that is correct, although that wasn't specified in the book.

yes, well I wrote that and it has a kind of logic behind it, but it's more accurate to say that Serrat is blood-kin to Korlat and Orfantal. I'll change that on my return from vacation.

-ch'arlz

[Dolorous Menhir]

Tomau;205848 said:

I've reread some parts from GotM, and Coll said and Kruppe read five black dragons. So, Rake, Korlat, Orfantal, Serrat!?, and I'm thinking Horult (he was with Korlat and Orfantal chasing Vorcan, and also night-hunter, so maybe he is the fifth).
But, if these are the same ones from the chaining of the CG, how long do Soletaken live, because that was about 120,000 years in the past? And Kilava must be 300,000. Are then Soletaken immortal or very long lived?

You're right, it was "five black dragons". My mistake.

And yes, Soletaken seem to have no natural limit to their lifespan. Though it's important to note that all the ancient Soletaken we see in GotM are either Tiste Andii or other supernatural races that have long, if not indefinite, lifetimes regardless of their Soletaken status.

So since Tiste Andii appear to be immortal anyway, it is not that meaningful to say "are Tiste Andii Soletaken immortal?" Are human Soletaken immortal? That's a more interesting question, but not one you can discuss much in the GotM forum.

[Tomau]

Dolorous Menhir;205975 said:

So since Tiste Andii appear to be immortal anyway, it is not that meaningful to say "are Tiste Andii Soletaken immortal?" Are human Soletaken immortal? That's a more interesting question, but not one you can discuss much in the GotM forum.

Didn't know that Tiste Andii are Immortal, but if that is so then there are just to many immortal races in Malazan World (immortality is just unnatural). I was refering to the Soletaken in general.

But, you are right, this should be posted in another forum. But one question lead to another, and so...
Anyway, I'll post this question in another forum.

[ch'arlz]

Dolorous Menhir;205758 said:

I can't remember how many Andii Soletaken Eleint took part in the events of MoI, but if someone can clear up how many distinct dragons there were during the battle of Coral that might help clear this up.

MOI spoiler

Spoiler

It's indeterminate, actually. Orfantal, alone at first, joined by Korlat later, and then "Dragons, now, wheeling outward, black, one crimson..." (MoI, usmmpb p853)

-ch'arlz

[SiriusL]

MOI spoiler:

Spoiler

I don't remember Silannah being involved in any of this--was she the red one? One would think she could do some damage to the condors. Plus where is she going to sleep, now?

[ch'arlz]

I'm still a no0b here so not sure what the proper protocol is for moving parts of a thread to another forum. A description of Silanah's presence at Coral doesn't seem appropriate in a GotM forum, however, even with a spoiler box.

[Imperial Historian]

If you want to flag a mod down onto a thread to move stuff, press the report button and we all get an email about it, or send a message to any mod currently online. Or a post like yours if it's not urgent does fine.

Anyway, the spoilers minor enough that I'll just put it in spoiler tags.

[ch'arlz]

Thanks, IH. I put an answer to SiriusL's question at http://www.malazanworld.com/forums/showthr...6383#post206383

[Abyss]

But, bottom line, Serrat was killed by Vorcan, and was not one of the four soletaken eleint fighting Raest.

When Rakr ref'd his four assassin-mages, he may have been referring to his four 'best' lieutenants, not all of whom are necessarily draconic, or being deliberately evasive to Barruk.

- Abyss, evasive in traffic.

[Wampyry]

In the US version of GOTM it is fairly obvious where Erikson wants the readers to go relative to the Dragons dwelling in Moon Spawn. Although he may be leading us astray.

The Glossary state 5 Tiste Andii; it also states under 'Other' Silanah,
companiion of Rake. Coll bellows out 5 Black Dragons. Kruppe reads in the
scrolls Tiste Andii, Black Dragons, numbering five and in their league sailed
red-winged Silanah. So...

1. Anomander Rake - Lord of Moon Spawn
2. Serrat - Second in command to Rake
3. Korlat - a night-hunter and blood kin to Serrat
4. Orfantal - a night hunter
5. Horult - a night hunter
1. Silanah - an Eleint and companion to Rake