[Traveller]

I don't think there are clear intentional parallels with real races/traits - that's in the view of the reader. The variety of skin colours in a fantasy world does not mean they share the characteristics/cultures of people in the real world.

Like, I see Kalam as dark skinned, almost true black, like charcoal. (His cousin Barathol is described as onyx skinned) I don't see 'black' in that sense as being the same as it is used to describe people of African descent, for example. In that sense, there is no problem with calling someone a black man, as it is just as descriptive as calling Ruin a white man, or Trull a grey man.

The inclusion of blue and green, grey and white skin describes the exact tone to me, and makes it seem very distinct, without drawing comparisons to real races.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 22 October 2008 - 11:52 AM

[Epiph]

Imperial Historian, on Mar 26 2008, 12:48 PM, said:

Seven cities look to be arab to african, Genebackis I don't have a clue what people look like, but crokus could walk round seven cities without comment, but the range of skin types in seven cities means that doesn't help to much, but I'd guess he wasn't white as that would have stood out.

If Fiddler is pale with red hair and can pass for a Seven Cities Gral, then it stands to reason that Seven Cities runs the gamut of skin color.

[Osric]

I feel that the blue man is supressed in these books, all the stereotypes are present!

Seriously though, I really do appreciate the way Erikson makes no difference between skin colour, a lot of the important characters are black.. or blue. I do agree that for some reason it's a habit to imagine people to be white, unless described otherwise, but that's probably cos I'm mostly around white people. Still, I generally see people from seven cities as black/asian like the arab countries, although there must be a lot of white people too.

It seems strange though, that in such a conflicted world people don't judge eachother for their skin colour. Certain clans or areas are all black, so if those were at war with a clan/people/area that is mostly white, I can see conflicts between people who have different colouring occuring pretty easily. Imagine you've been fighting white men all your life, they killed your friends and family, and then a white man comes passing through, you might wanna kill him because that's what you're used to (not saying that thats smart or right, just can easily see it happening). Unless I'm wrong and there truly is no one people that have the same skin colour.

Either way, I can see why Erikson doesn't go into racial issues, doesn't really suit a fantasy book. I do think that the way Erikson describes people's opinions and dealings with other people who look/act different from them is exactly how the real would should be like.

This post has been edited by Osric: 24 October 2008 - 08:42 AM

[D'rek]

I think part of the lack of enmity between the various human races comes from them all the cultures having a somewhat equal footing in sorcery and technology. Every continent has at least one human culture that has the capacity to build ships and visit other places, and sorcerors are present in all the "civilized" cultures, so these combine with cultures being known widely, hence people are more exposed to other cultures. This is very contrastive to our world where Europe and its ginormous navies spread themselves far and wide long before the rest of us had the chance to do the same. And we can't just make holes into warrens and walk to other continents.

There certainly is an element of racism in the Malaziworld towards so-called "savages", however, as we often see occuring with Karsa and the TE.

[ShadowOwl]

Quote

There certainly is an element of racism in the Malaziworld towards so-called "savages", however, as we often see occuring with Karsa and the TE.

And yet, others in the Malaz world see Karsa as TTT and part of an ancient race, and the Tiste Edur as race like the Andii. They seem to have respect for them.
Of course, we also need to remember the people of this world take the return of dead people as a normal occurance, so I can't see colour ever meaning anything to them, when even being dead doesn't! I like that about this world!

[l2rdo]

The only really racist people in Erickson's books seem to be the Tiste. They all hate each other due to skin color and heritage.

[Aptorian]

l2rdo, on Jan 12 2009, 01:48 PM, said:

The only really racist people in Erickson's books seem to be the Tiste. They all hate each other due to skin color and heritage.

Uhm. Imass and Jaghut? Teblor and Mezla. Mezla and 7C tribes, etc. etc.

[MTS]

Wouldn't it be pretty hard as a 7C tribesman to discriminate a "Mezla"? I mean, they could be Genabackan, Talian, Malazan, 7C even. I don't buy that as a racist conflict, more one of pride - the "Mezla" defeated them and took their freedom (more or less), so they want it back.

[Mcflury]

Mappo's Travelling Sack, on Jan 12 2009, 02:19 PM, said:

Wouldn't it be pretty hard as a 7C tribesman to discriminate a "Mezla"? I mean, they could be Genabackan, Talian, Malazan, 7C even. I don't buy that as a racist conflict, more one of pride - the "Mezla" defeated them and took their freedom (more or less), so they want it back.

He still has quite a lot of other examples too
And I add: Wickan and Malazans.

[Powder]

I think it is because he gets the point, namely that the color of your skin does not matter (period). You are human first. Only once we stop (as a species) identifying WHO we are with WHAT we look like can we overcome racism. Again we (as a species) need to be concerned with what someone does and not with how they appear, the latter is irrelevant in the long run. I find that Erickson is mildly mocking in his dipictions of people. Clearly making the point that your color does not matter, by the way theres blue people! In the foreward of NoK he plainly states that he and ICE were attempting to break the mold. What better way to do this than to ignore and even subtlely mock how we in the real world are so ready to divide over issues as trivial as the color of ones skin as opposed to the mettle of his heart.

[Fisher]

Just to clarify, are the Napan white with a bluish tinge, or black with a bluish tinge? I'm picturing them as the latter (I have a vague memory of someone referring to Urko as black)

Also, Dancer is pretty much Edward Norton.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

It varies, the skin colour. I think half-Napans are powder blue and full-blooded Napans are blue-black.

Spoiler

Read Keeper's description in HoC.

[Salt-Man Z]

Well, Laseen is Napan royalty or something, and I think she's described as "dusky" blue. I just figure that Napans run a whole range of blues, from light to dark.

[Old Magic]

even Kormack can't seem to get a feel for Africans in fantasy.. despite quick ben and kalams repeated descriptions of dark skin, they are still portrayed as white.. though its just a 'sketch', they are pretty big blunders.. I actually used this pic for a birthday card for my dad (lol, the Candleburners..) and darkened Ben and Kalam myself..


I also don't get the feeling that they are African but more middle-eastern to India in pigment and appearance (again, probably due to all the deserts and mountains.. either way I think SE uses more races than most authors)

[Lynx]

I would complement SE and ICE for putting in so many different and complex characters into their books and making use of many different physical characteristics to give variety to the characters I immagine when reading these books. I do not care what race (human or other wise) a person is or what colour the person/alien is. With one exception if a writer were to write a book with all the good guys being one colour and all the bad being another it would be a bad thing.

[Fredimus]

I figured that "Napan blue" meant more darkish-blue but it seems I was wrong. Maybe it's my hatred of the Blue Man Group that got the better of me.

@ Fisher : LOL. Actually, I always saw Dancer more like a young James Caviezel.

[Ben Adephon Delat]

Aptorian, on 24 March 2008 - 07:44 PM, said:

It's strange but I actually don't atribute skin color to any of the characters. I think of them all as white, even the andii...

My imagination is a racist.

Strangely enough I'm the opposite I picture everyone as black or Arab until they are explicitly stated to be white. It's probably because I read Earth Sea and Black Company before reading this series so my notion of all fantasy characters as white was already broken before I started

Anyway so far as I'm aware the only people who are exclusively white are the Letharii and the Falari [non-indigenous]

This post has been edited by Ben Adephon Delat: 02 November 2009 - 07:55 AM

[mayhem]

And as someone already mentioned, most of the population is aware of other non-human races, from the Jaghut in the past to the TTT and the T'lan Imass.
Similar to discworld, racism just doesn't become popular when speciesism is so much fun.
"Black and white lived together in perfect harmony, and ganged up on green"

[Kanese S's]

As mayhem says, next to differences like, well, tusks and green skin, or too many damn joints, differences between light and dark skin color don't seem so significant.

[Weave]

Bloody interesting topic.
I mean topic in both senses (but not the third, sub standard chocolate bar) credit once more to this community.