[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Forrest's only shot is to get Silva down, and hopefully avoid submissions while pounding on him. If he tries to stand and box, it's going to be over quick.

[Pig Iron]

I like Forrest, but he's going to have a problem talking without slurring in his 60s. "Good chin" is a questionable tactic. And I doubt Machida's going to be G&P:d. If someone could dominate him in the clinch Randy-style perhaps?

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

The problem would be getting him in the clinch. He's a hard guy to grab.

[Pig Iron]

Lot easier said than done

[Zanth13]

Who do you think, Mir or Lesnar? less then a week away,

I really hope this goes to Mir, Lesnar doesnt deserve to be a champ yet...he had his mma career given to him on a gold platter because he was a celebrity.

[KalamMekhar]

Im going mir all the way

[Bent]

Rumor has it Lesnar has been training on his boxing pretty hard. I look for a very close match up, but give the edge to Mir in the cards, barring something like the Couture match where Lesner barely brushed him with a right hook. SO I say 3 rounds to 2 Mir, going to the cards. But What the hell do I know? lol.

[amphibian]

I think Lesnar's going to be champ for a while.

Couture thought he'd slipped that punch, as he'd forgotten Lesnar's reach. Those knees in the clinch probably had something to do with that forgetting.

In other news, Diego Sanchez has the meanest stare down I've ever seen. Love the way he fights and he won that Guida fight clean. Naaaasty elbows.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Zanth13, on Jul 6 2009, 03:45 PM, said:

Who do you think, Mir or Lesnar? less then a week away,

I really hope this goes to Mir, Lesnar doesnt deserve to be a champ yet...he had his mma career given to him on a gold platter because he was a celebrity.

If he beats Mir, then I would certainly say he deserves it. He's not the first person to get an early title shot. He's fought nothing but good competition since joining the UFC. I have no problem with early title shots - if you beat the champ, you deserve to be the champ. (See Serra, Matt. Or Anderson Silva. There are other examples.) That said, Lesner is a prick. However, a talented prick. He still need to round out his game a lot, but if he can win the belt with the tools he has, he deserves.

Of course, Mir is also a prick. Also very talented. I like both of them as fighters, not as people. Not sure who I'm even rooting for. Lesner, I guess. It will at least set up a big rubber match. I just want a good fight.

Anyone watching the Top 100 fights in UFC history running all week? Good stuff. If you miss it, I believe they are replaying all four or five installments Saturday before the fights.

I'm really looking forward to the GSP fight. The Hendo/Bisping fight I don't think will be that exciting, Bisping's dancing versus Hondo's grinding. Probably a decision.

[Coco with marshmallows]

right now i'm still nervously waiting on them announcing WHAT F***ING CHANNEL it's going to be on over here.

goddamn Setanta going to the wall.

I know Dana has said it will air live, and I know there are like, five channels after it (Virgin 1, Bravo, Channel 5, ESPN, Sky sports)

but would SOMEONE make the f***ing call already and let us know?

[Icarium Kalam]

Zanth13, on Jul 6 2009, 04:45 PM, said:

Who do you think, Mir or Lesnar? less then a week away,

I really hope this goes to Mir, Lesnar doesnt deserve to be a champ yet...he had his mma career given to him on a gold platter because he was a celebrity.

................ lot of mir fans..... I predict the first death in ufc history this saturday when Lesnar smashs mir to piece. sorry guys. anyway its payper-view got to pay do see Franks death.

[Zanth13]

wow Icarium i really dont see that happening... If Frank loses it will be from TKO(maybe KO), and probably early in the fight as well, i dont see this one going to the judges score card, but stranger things have happened...

naturally people are epxecting either a TKO from Lesnar or a sumbission from Mir... I would love to see a TKO/KO from Mir, but we shall see.

@RLY, I disagree, beating a champ doesnt mean you deserve the belt imo. part of the whole championship process is getting yourself to that contender spot. anyone can beat anyone on any given day, its making it to that point that solidfies your championship shot and there for your title.

Lots of people could have probably beat Randy he is on his way out the door, but instead the title shot went to a guy who was 1-1 in the UFC.... How does a loss to Mir and a Decision Win over Heath Hearing get you in a ring against a UFC champion, a hall of famor no less... there were plenty of heavy weights with better records and more wins.

Im not saying lesnar cant make a great champ, he does have the skills, but he didnt get tested enough, he should have had to string at least 3- 5 wins in the octagon before being considered for a title shot alot of fighters do more than that and get looked over.

Whose to say Lesnar would have made it past the many talented heavy weights in UFC if he had to fight his way up like everyone else... he could have ended up like Kongo, lots of potential but always a loss away from getting the big shot.

[Coco with marshmallows]

I agree with Zanth.

On a personal note, I think Shane Carwin is much more deserving of a title shot. Lesnar got it as a business decision, because he has a name.
If he wins and retains it for a while fair enough, but in the end that first chance was given to him because of his pre-existing fame.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Well of course his preexisting fame got him the title shot. So what? Dan Henderson got TWO consecutive title shots as soon as he signed with the UFC. It's not the best comparison, as Hendo had certainly proved himself as a fighter in Pride, but the fact remains that because people wanted to see it, he got not one but two title shots. Here's where you're probably saying "But he had those belts in Pride, he actually deserved those title shots!" He lost both fights. It could be argued that by losing both of those fights, he demonstrated that he did not in fact deserve to get them.

Look at Anderson Silva. He signed with the UFC, beat Chris "Tiny arms and legs" Leben and immediately got a title shot. Why? Because that's what the fans wanted to see, it was a highly marketable fight. Of course, by the run he has since gone on, he has proved without a doubt that he deserved that shot. Again, not the same situation, but it's still an applicable comparison.

Shit, look at Frank Mir. Previous to his title shot against Nog, he had lost to Brandon "Not a real heavyweight" Vera, beat the undeserving Brock Lesner, and beat Antoni "the gatekeeper's gatekeeper" Hardonk. Regardless of the fact that he was an ex-champ, putting together a 2 fight win streak preceeded by a loss to a natural light heavyweight was by no means deserving of getting a shot at Nog. He got it anyway, because of who he is and the marketability of the fight, and proved he deserved to be there by beating Nog.

Let's face facts. The Heavyweight division is, despite recent improvement, the weakest and most shallow weightclass in the UFC and probably the world. None of those guys have done that much to "deserve" a title shot. How manyUFC heavies can you point to and say "I think that guy is the baddest man in the sport?" Not many. Lesner got jumped over a bunch of guys, but it's not like they were a bunch of Hall of Famers.

Name recognition and popularity has and always will play into it. That's why Machida took so long to get his shot - for a long time no one cared about him. That's why Carwin isn't getting the shot - he needs wins over some big names, so people care about him.

God, it's so nice to be able to have an intelligent discussion about MMA on the internet without anyone using the phrases noob, nuthugger, hater, real mma fan, or any of the other stupid shit you see elsewhere. I love you guys. Rational disagreements are fun.

[Coco with marshmallows]

I dunno, I thought Carwin's win over Gonzaga would have been enough to push him up there, especially given the lack of depth in the UFC's
heavyweight division.

Also, the fact that he's (currently at least) sitting on an unbeaten streak should be enough to convince people he's worth a shot,
especially given that the longest of his eleven fights lasted about 2 mins.

[Zanth13]

@RLY

You are of course right, and I understand why they let chose to let brock rise up, he is a cash cow, and thats the most important thing to Dana, its whats helped get UFC and MMA to be as popular as it is now.

I just dont agree, Brock could very well go on to be a great(read: hard to beat) champion, but I would have liked to see him rise through the ranks more, oh well, what will be bad for him since he made it to the top so fast, when he falls it will be a long fall to the bottom.

Mir IMO deserved to be in the lead contendar spot because he was a prior champion, he never got to defend his belt... yeah he looked really shitty when he came back but he still was a name. Plus he did beat Brock once, it would be hard to not give him a title shot when he has already recently beaten the current champ

and i cant agrue with Dana's tactic, this UFC 100 is probably the most exciting one in some time... maybe since the first Tito/Liddell fights...

[amphibian]

Zanth13, on Jul 8 2009, 01:25 AM, said:

Lots of people could have probably beat Randy he is on his way out the door

Que? Couture's only fought three times in the last three years. He lost one of them - because he thought he'd slipped a punch from Lesnar when he actually didn't. He stomped Sylvia and Gonzaga pretty decisively. I think his performance against Big Nog at 102 will determine that "out the door" status, not what's gone on previously.

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on Jul 8 2009, 04:55 AM, said:

Well of course his preexisting fame got him the title shot. So what? Dan Henderson got TWO consecutive title shots as soon as he signed with the UFC. It's not the best comparison, as Hendo had certainly proved himself as a fighter in Pride, but the fact remains that because people wanted to see it, he got not one but two title shots. Here's where you're probably saying "But he had those belts in Pride, he actually deserved those title shots!" He lost both fights. It could be argued that by losing both of those fights, he demonstrated that he did not in fact deserve to get them.

Henderson v. Jackson was balls to the walls action for the full five rounds. Henderson lost, but he did so well in the loss that the title shot at 185 just made sense. I'd still consider him a top 3 MW (Marquardt would be 2, assuming Maia can't beat him) and top 6 LHW.

Quote

Name recognition and popularity has and always will play into it. That's why Machida took so long to get his shot - for a long time no one cared about him. That's why Carwin isn't getting the shot - he needs wins over some big names, so people care about him.

I agree with your points about marketability and the shallowness of the HW division. White/Zuffa's decisions about exclusivity, sponsorship and so on have been dumbass moves and I'm truly hoping Strikeforce continues to grow healthily, as they just seem to embrace the future interests of the sport much better than the UFC.

On another note, Carwin is fighting Cain Velasquez at 104. I bet the winner of that gets a title shot. The loser will probably be one fight away from contention. Dang this shallowness.

[Zanth13]

oh Couture is deff one of the best fighters in the buisness, and i didnt mean to say he wasnt... mainly i ment that he has been trying to get out of the fight buisness, and wont be around for alot longer...but i still think some of the up and coming heavyweights could have beaten him... such as Cain and or Carwin... i dont know how true it is but Wikipedia says that the winner of that fight will go on for a title shot against the Mir Lesnar fight

[Icarium Kalam]

so I'm going Lesnar, G.S.P. Bisping, and Bonnar

[Coco with marshmallows]

Icarium Kalam, on Jul 9 2009, 01:51 AM, said:

so I'm going Lesnar, G.S.P. Bisping, and Bonnar

Now THAT's a brutal training session......



seriously though, I'd have to agree.