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Mma/ufc

#1 User is offline   Raymond Luxury Yacht 

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 10:49 PM

I have nothing in particular to discuss, but the sports forum needed a MMA thread. Here are some talking points to get us started.

1. Anderson Silva: Best pound for pound striker in MMA?

2. Fedor: As good as the hype? Ever coming to UFC?

3. Liddell vs. Jardine: Exciting fight or foregone conclusion?

4. Coulture vs. Gonzaga: Coulture keeps up the magic, or sent back to retirement?

Discuss.
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#2 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 01:59 AM

Quote

1. Anderson Silva: Best pound for pound striker in MMA?

I don't know, man. Things like this are always hard to debate, unless you've a real strong opinion. I ain't got one here.

Quote

2. Fedor: As good as the hype? Ever coming to UFC?

Right now, he's that good. He doesn't have any real weaknesses and he's above-average to very good in just about every area. I think he's going to be brought into the UFC within the year. Dana White has been making noises for a while and I think what's holding things up is the ridiculous mess inside PRIDE.

Barnett may be able to take him in a cage and I bet some young kid will come along in five years (when Fedor retires) who'll be better than anybody before. Fedor grew up Sambo and then learned the rest as an adult; the unknown kid will have been trained in BJJ, striking arts and conditioning from early adolescence.

Quote

3. Liddell vs. Jardine: Exciting fight or foregone conclusion?

Why would Jardine fight Liddell? Alexander, a part-time fighter with those ridiculous short arm uppercuts, dominated Jardine and the Iceman is a world-class fighter. Again White pops up: Jardine might be tempted by some money to be a tomato can fight for Chuck. I don't like the fight personally, but I do like the idea of Chuck getting some PR steam built up again before fighting somebody ridiculous. Like Wanderlei. Seriously, that fight just needs to happen. Why can't they push Liddell's reentry to November and make that reality?

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4. Coulture vs. Gonzaga: Coulture keeps up the magic, or sent back to retirement?
It's going to be a real struggle, but I think Couture keeps the belt in a decision. Gonzaga has shown some good skills, but I still think his stunning Cro-Cop win was more of a rewarded exploitation of an opportunity than overwhelming skills, strength or conditioning.
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#3 User is offline   paladin 

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 05:10 AM

Fedor is that good, and he'll be in UFC sooner or later.. hopefully before a decline.

Couture will win. Gonzaga is too young to beat who the best fighter I've ever seen. Crocop is a great fighter, but he's not Couture's caliber yet, losing to Gonzaga proved that.

Speaking of amazing fighters, every Karo Parisyan fight I see really entertains and impresses me.. hopefully he sticks around for a long time
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#4 User is offline   Raymond Luxury Yacht 

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 05:49 AM

You guys ever go to ufcjunkie.com? Some good stuff there. They do a good job of reporting all the gossip, not necessarily good, about UFC/MMA. You see stuff Dana would never allow on the UFC website.
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#5 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 05:38 PM

Raymond Luxury Yacht;200333 said:

You guys ever go to ufcjunkie.com? Some good stuff there. They do a good job of reporting all the gossip, not necessarily good, about UFC/MMA. You see stuff Dana would never allow on the UFC website.

Sometimes. But their "reveals" of the pay scales for UFC fights misleads. There's a bunch of off-the-table stuff that Dana gives out to fighters (sponsorships) that never shows up on the official reports.
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#6 User is offline   paladin 

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 08:29 PM

and they point that out. they only state what the athletic commission receives, which is public data, and they make that very plain.
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#7 User is offline   Binder of Demons 

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 09:42 PM

Regarding the Prospect of Fedor going to UFC, there is an interview with Dana White on the ESPN MMA section (at least I think that's where i strayed on to it). In the interview he suggests that it is very likely, and just a matter of sorting out issues with PRIDE (which didn't seem to bother him).

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#8 User is offline   paladin 

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Posted 18 July 2007 - 01:19 AM

Binder of Demons;201076 said:

Regarding the Prospect of Fedor going to UFC, there is an interview with Dana White on the ESPN MMA section (at least I think that's where i strayed on to it). In the interview he suggests that it is very likely, and just a matter of sorting out issues with PRIDE (which didn't seem to bother him).


true.. but nothing seems to bother him. he's a bit loopy
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#9 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 18 July 2007 - 03:09 AM

paladin;201109 said:

true.. but nothing seems to bother him. he's a bit loopy

I think White's been alternately good for UFC and bad for it. Much more good than bad. However, when I see something like the Wanderlei/Liddell no-go, I sometimes think "Wait a minute, why would White put this kind of public pressure on that guy/camp for something to happen, what do he gain from it? Publicity? Actual results? Or a slow buildup of resentment?"

Right now, I see him as a lesser MMA version of 50 Cent.
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#10 User is offline   Raymond Luxury Yacht 

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Posted 18 July 2007 - 05:22 AM

Whatever mistakes he has made, one simple fact remains. Without Dana White, there is no UFC. With no UFC, the explosion of interest in MMA, and indeed MMA as we know it, do not exist. That would be sad.
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#11 User is offline   Raymond Luxury Yacht 

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 04:58 AM

Sherk and Hermes France both tested positive for 'roids after that last title fight. Bitches. Pisses me off.
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#12 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 04:40 PM

Raymond Luxury Yacht;201494 said:

Sherk and Hermes France both tested positive for 'roids after that last title fight. Bitches. Pisses me off.

Franca has already released a quasi-apology. I still can't fully believe Sherk tested postive.

He'd done a whole big thing on Spike TV about his ridiculous Caveman training (I've seen it - so awesome and difficult) and was making it a real sticking point that he was training differently and better than other MMA fighters.

I'm not sure what the testing mechanisms are - both samples tested positive - but it is at least possible that a really rich protein diet, legal supplements and extremely strenuous exercise could yield a false positive. Sherk tested out at 12ng/ml (6ng/ml being the max). Royce Gracie tested with over 50ng/ml.

So maybe it could be a false positive. from 6 to 12 is a significant jump, but not as big as 6 to 50+. I think right now Sherk is appealing and I hope he gets cleared, if only to keep the division stable and to see a Penn fight in the near future.
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#13 User is offline   paladin 

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 04:48 PM

they usually have a backup sample that will be tested on appeal, but if he doesnt appeal then that is pretty much an admission of guilt to me.

anyways, as far as the caveman training, is that similar to what fedor does? hitting a rock with a sledgehammer to gain strength and doing other "nature" activities?

and much like the mlb and nfl, if you dont use approved, tested supplements(even if they're sold in a grocery store) you may be getting that steroid in the supplement and you will be held responsible for it. there is no federal testing on supplements, so you really have no idea what is in there. that is why major leagues do their own testing and give the players a list of approved/suggested supplements.
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#14 User is offline   Raymond Luxury Yacht 

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 07:20 PM

They already tested both samples. I guess a normal person has a 2, an athlete has about a 6, sherk had about a 12. I guess it's possible for it to be natural. (Floyd Landis defense, anyone?) On the show depicting his training, he had a gigantic basket of supplements. Could be something in there had something he didn't know about.
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#15 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 12:15 AM

paladin;201603 said:

anyways, as far as the caveman training, is that similar to what fedor does? hitting a rock with a sledgehammer to gain strength and doing other "nature" activities?

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/searc...aveman-training

Awesome video, even if he actually was 'roided up.

It is very similar to Fedor's training, but I know the Russian has a ground game coach and a striking-specific coach and probably a few other training methods or alternatives to use. Sherk, although the 155 champ, does not make the money Fedor does.
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#16 User is offline   No-God 

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 05:18 AM

You have to remember that steroids don't make your stronger, but they make your muscles recover much quicker from a strenuous workout than regular, which allows more training.

The types of steroids Sherk and Gracie used were extremely different, so comparing them isn't a wise idea. It's entirely realistic to believe Sherk used an illegal substance, seeing as though he hasn't even declined it yet, and it's been a couple days.
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#17 User is offline   Raymond Luxury Yacht 

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 05:37 AM

I don't know that it's accurate to say steroids don't make you stronger.
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#18 User is offline   paladin 

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 05:43 AM

steroids give you better potential to be stronger i guess
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Posted 21 July 2007 - 08:05 PM

Raymond Luxury Yacht;201686 said:

I don't know that it's accurate to say steroids don't make you stronger.


It's absolutely accurate.

Steroids give you the recovery to work out more, but steroids don't make you stronger.
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#20 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 08:43 PM

No-God;201735 said:

It's absolutely accurate.

Steroids give you the recovery to work out more, but steroids don't make you stronger.

I could argue that there may be a slight placebo effect to go along with mood swings. If someone takes a steroid like DECA that takes a while to act, they could still move more weight in the interval period, be a little faster or recover faster than normal because their brain could be going "Hey, I'm taking steroids. I should be doing more than I normally would."
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