[Malankazooie]

I guess you didn't read the quote then chief, so I'll emphasize the key part.

Quote

What's it going to say about those who buy it

Hyping a fight is nothing new. And probably a lot of it was scripted. But yeah, the disgusting language has no part imo. Also, boxing is dying, so probably why they took it to "professional wrestling" levels of idiocy.

[amphibian]

The disgusting language has been a part of the fight game since time immemorial.

The people buying this fight are little different from those who've ponied up cash for decades in the PPV model. A century in the video model. Thousands of years in the live viewing model.

I'm not saying it's right. What I'm saying is that this is a systemic issue far bigger than what Gumbel points at.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 26 July 2017 - 05:57 PM

[amphibian]

The issue isn't that Mayweather and McGregor are using these things as tools to drive this into what looks like the second most lucrative fight ever in the history of the sport.

The issue is that these are tools to begin with and being someone who pooh poohs it frome the sidelines without engaging into the very real and astoundingly complex issues they represent isn't at all a bit helpful or impressive.

[Malankazooie]

UFC 214
Fight of the night was Lawler v. Cerrone. Just when you think Lawler looks like he is ready to go, dude finds another gear or pulls something from somewhere and comes back. Dude has got the heart of a lion. I thought how the fight was judged was pretty much on the mark so not upset that Cerrone lost (even though I was hoping he'd win)

Cyborg v. Evinger. What the hell was that?! There's probably no one interesting now for Cyborg to fight, unless Rousey comes out of retirement. Even then, I think Cyborg would walk right through her. Rousey will never be the same (and probably stays retired).

Woodley v Maia. This was a clinic in how to defend against a world class BJJ expert. Which made for a boring fight in the layman fight fan's eyes, but if you watched all the little nuiance to how Woodley worked his game plan, you can appreciate how won the fight.

And finally the top event, Cormier v. Jones. Man, I feel bad for DC, but damn Jones just looks like a monster when they square off in the octagon. And that kick, whooo doggy, did it make the slobber and spit fly. DC probably took too many bombs from Jones when he was reeling on the matt. I was legit worried for his health.

Jones called out Brock Lesner after. I'd rather see him fight Alexander Gustafsson, who was impressive has hell in his last fight.

[amphibian]

Live, I had the Jones Cormier rounds 10-10, 10-9 Jones. I had a party going on though and several friends over with beers.

Today, after two more replays (soberly watched this time), I score them both for Jones 10-9. Jon has become a better fighter and as good as Cormier is, he'll never beat Jones. That being said, when Jones goes big with his punches, Cormier was able to evade and punish Jones for it. That probably means Jones will never regain the early punching power he had in his career because he'll stick to the Winklejohn patented gameplans.

Cerrone lost, but it was because Lawler had the strong start and then dug the body late. Cerrone really tried as hard as he could, but just couldn't hit Lawler in the head enough. Probably should have adjusted to go after the body more, but that's hard, especially when Lawler can walk through so much.

Nunes is probably a fun fight for matchmaking Cyborg. I'd like to see that in about a year or so. Maybe give de Randamie enough money to go back up to 145 and give Nunes enough time to train up for the big money fight. Holm might not come back after a Cyborg fight (and brutal loss), so that fight should be made when it's pretty certain Holly wants one last fight in her career.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 30 July 2017 - 10:30 PM

[Binder of Demons]

Thought Jones was impressive enough in victory over Cormier, but his susceptibility to the uppercut really makes me wonder how Rumble would have fared in a title shot against Jones. Now, Jones would probably find a way, but it would have been interesting for a round or so. I really want to see the Gustafson rematch though. That last time was epic.

Don't know who gets to fight Volkan next at light heavy. He has some pretty scary power in his hands. But I don't think you risk Gustafson, doubtful he'd get Cormier, Rumble is retired, and Glover was just brutally KO'd. So who do you give him as a test, before any potential title shot since he's already in the top 5? This is where you could use a Bader or a Phil Davis about now.

As for the rest of the card, thought it was entertaining enough, despite most of the results not going how i'd have liked. Really wanted to see Maia win, and would've laughed my ass off if Cyborg had lost. But it wasn't to be. Really enjoyed the Ortega-Moicano fight, some lovely boxing combinations being thrown by both men, and a really slick guillotine to finish.

Funnily enough ,my overriding impression of the card was that Dominic Cruz is an awesome co-commentator, and that Jason Herzog seems like a really good ref.

[amphibian]

Woodley shutting down Maia is fine. However, he has a stake in making his fights better (and more lucrative) by figuring out how to attack more. He doesn't. He sticks with his somewhat effective two set-ups for his overhand right. Set-up #1: two pumping left hands that aren't really jabs and are there only to cover the dash forwards to land the right. Set-up #2: Kick 'em in the body and see if the opening for the right hand is there. If those aren't there and the opponent pressures him into the cage, he's dunzo on offense. It's baffling because he's a really good athlete with extremely good defensive skills, but he's just not developing as a champion as one would hope with the increased wages and access.

Maia on the flip side did develop his takedowns beyond what I would have expected from him. I was thinking that he'd get lit up more coming in, but he didn't. The problem with this improvement is that I think it was never a strategy that could work against Woodley's defensive wrestling. I think that Woodley's defensive wrestling would pretty much neuter anyone who isn't on a level higher than an NCAA All American's. So Maia should have figured out more striking counters to neutralize Woodley and enter into a clinch against the fence, where Woodley is weaker than Maia, Shields, or MacDonald. So Maia had shitty strategy too. Oof.

Herzog is usually really good. I like Goddard as a referee.

Kim Winslow is the worst referee I've seen to work major fights ever. Even the PRIDE referee Yuji Shimada, who let a ton of people get crushed beyond reason, was better.

[amphibian]

Bet you "No Time" Oezdemir fights Patrick Cummins next.

[Malankazooie]

See, I thought Cruz's announcing was unpolished. While he brought some insight that you don't hear because of his experience as a fighter, I thought he and Joe Rogan were interrupting each other a lot. I'm not sure if Cruz has his eye on a career as an announcer after fighting, but I felt he was too zealous at times and so he and Rogan were talking over each other. You could even see the discomfort on Rogan's face when the camera was on them. And I'm by no means an Joe Rogan apologist or fan boy. He annoys me at times, but he's been doing this so long now that his experience out shines the others.

[Binder of Demons]

@Amphib - I can see the Oezdemir-Cummins match-up but i expect that would be just as short lived as Volkan's recent fights. Cummins gets hit on the chin way too easily, so while it would be interesting to see how Volkan would deal with a pure wrestler, there'd be too many chances to land a bomb and end it early. IMO.


@ MK - Funny, I didn't notice that about Cruz on this broadcast, but you could probably put some of it down to the 3 man booth being a tricky beast in terms of who speaks when. But I'd gladly take a few missteps (which didn't notice) for the level of insight that he gives.


Who do you guys think Woodley should face next? I really would love to see Masvidal get a shot, but that can't happen since he's only just coming off the loss to Maia. He'd be at a size disadvantage, but he has a granite chin, strong wrestling, and some really nice boxing. And he has that weird combination of an aggressive attitude with a really controlled fighting style. I think he could get in Woodley's head once they got in the octagon. As much as I dislike Woodley, I can't see Lawlor (too happy to get hit to give a shot), Magny (gets hit too easily) or Condit (i think his chin is gone) beating him now. That takes you down to Cerrone (coming off a loss) and Covington (who's he beat?) and you're nearly out of the top 10. Tough to see who to give him.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Oezdemir seems a bit like the lighteavyweight Miocic---unheralded, not particularly interesting stylistically, significant recent losses, but starting on a streak of major KO wins... It would be incredibly anticlimactic if he became the first to knock Jones out.

[Malankazooie]

Binder of Demons, on 31 July 2017 - 10:11 PM, said:

@ MK - Funny, I didn't notice that about Cruz on this broadcast, but you could probably put some of it down to the 3 man booth being a tricky beast in terms of who speaks when. But I'd gladly take a few missteps (which didn't notice) for the level of insight that he gives.

Yeah, I don't like the three person format. Maybe they are trying to copy HBO's boxing model (which is horrible), mostly because Roy Jones Jr. has taken too many punches to the head and can't talk, but yeah, it sucks aside from that.

I saw Mike Golderberg on the Bellator event that aired Friday (Fedor Emelianenko should go back to retirement btw) and as much as he has mannerisms that annoy me, he is is still so much more polished and better then any of the announcers the UFC has matched up with Rogan since his firing.

[polishgenius]

Nah. Goldie was terrible at his job. No insight whatsoever and even his dramatic presention was just repetition of a few catchphrases. It took me months of watching UFC cards to work out that Rogan was supposed to be the colour commentator in the pairing.

I think part of the problem they do have now, as well as three-man booths being difficult to work, is that none of the people they have doing it is a proper professional commentator. Rogan is the most experienced but it ain't his trade. But I think that can be learned, and I'd much rather someone with the insights of Cruz (or Cormier, who I think is also decent) who's a bit unpolished than someone with no substance. I'm with the others who really enjoyed Cruz's work.

I also think Rogan may have felt uncomfortable because a couple of times Cruz was calling him out when chatting bullshit (it's possible that this is the first time someone's really drawn Rogan's attention, however unintentionally, to the fact that he really knows jack shit about striking and his commentary is massively, massively weaker when a fight's standing than when it's on the ground. It's something he really does need to realise and work on). Cruz wasn't particularly diplomatic with it at moments and Rogan wasn't ready for it- but again, that can be worked on.

Also:

Quote

Fight of the night was Lawler v. Cerrone.

That was excellent but the fight of the night was most definitely Moicano vs Ortega earlier on. If you haven't yet seen it seek it out, it was great.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

polishgenius, on 04 August 2017 - 11:51 PM, said:

Nah. Goldie was terrible at his job. No insight whatsoever and even his dramatic presention was just repetition of a few catchphrases. It took me months of watching UFC cards to work out that Rogan was supposed to be the colour commentator in the pairing.

I think part of the problem they do have now, as well as three-man booths being difficult to work, is that none of the people they have doing it is a proper professional commentator. Rogan is the most experienced but it ain't his trade. But I think that can be learned, and I'd much rather someone with the insights of Cruz (or Cormier, who I think is also decent) who's a bit unpolished than someone with no substance. I'm with the others who really enjoyed Cruz's work.

I also think Rogan may have felt uncomfortable because a couple of times Cruz was calling him out when chatting bullshit (it's possible that this is the first time someone's really drawn Rogan's attention, however unintentionally, to the fact that he really knows jack shit about striking and his commentary is massively, massively weaker when a fight's standing than when it's on the ground. It's something he really does need to realise and work on). Cruz wasn't particularly diplomatic with it at moments and Rogan wasn't ready for it- but again, that can be worked on.

Also:

Quote

Fight of the night was Lawler v. Cerrone.

That was excellent but the fight of the night was most definitely Moicano vs Ortega earlier on. If you haven't yet seen it seek it out, it was great.

Mostly agree, but Rogan does know a bit about TKD, having been the US Open national champion. (I find it amusing to imagine his MMA fighting style as a mix of TKD and wild Eddie Bravo pain resistant stoner butterfly guard. And maybe ranting in people's ears, talking smack....)

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 05 August 2017 - 03:34 AM

[Malankazooie]

Believe me, you won't see Cruz much more doing announcing. Rogan has honed his craft. Golberg was his sidekick. There's got to be a synergy in the announcing. Technical announcing in such a minutia way that Cruz does it does not work for the pay per view customer. They want bombast, which Rogan and Goldie provided. They just need to replace Goldy. But yeah, Cruz's announcing is done. believe me.

[polishgenius]

I think so far you're the only person I've seen criticising Cruz's commentary. Whereas you'd see Goldie getting hammered all the damn time online. Maybe there's some reason to believe that more casual fans would prefer Goldie or a Goldie-style commentator, but the UFC aren't going to base their decisions around what they think people who don't care enough to actually register their opinion might want.


If Cruz doesn't get many more gigs, it's either he doesn't want to or Cormier's got his foot in the door first and has already built an evident friendship with Rogan, who presumably does get some say. Not because of audiences.

[Coco with marshmallows]

really wish Bas Rutten would get the nod to do the commentary on UFC now that Goldberg is gone.

[amphibian]

You do not want Bas commentating. He's not usually tethered to the reality in front of him and he's in pain often enough that he's a bit spacey.

I enjoy him in small bursts, but he's not built for UFC cards these days.

[Malankazooie]

polishgenius, on 05 August 2017 - 08:21 AM, said:

If Cruz doesn't get many more gigs, it's either he doesn't want to or Cormier's got his foot in the door first and has already built an evident friendship with Rogan, who presumably does get some say. Not because of audiences.

You really think the UFC doesn't take into account an audiences' reception to the announcing team? That's probably the dumbest thing I've read in this thread, and believe me, there's been a lot of dumb things said here.

I could see DC filling the spot (it won't be Cruz, bank on it). DC maybe thinking retirement now that he can't get out from under Jone's shadow. DC is actually pretty good at it too.

[Malankazooie]

Caught highlights of Vasyl Lomachenko and Miguel Marriaga (boxing). I don't know anything about Lomachenko, but damn, he was pretty impressive. Totally outclassed Marriaga.