[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Incredibly stacked card scheduled for today---five main event caliber fights:

Yair Rodriguez - Frankie Edgar
Demian Maia-Jorge Masvidal
Eddie Alvarez-Dustin Poirier (prelims)
Joanna Jedrzejczyk-Jessica Andrade (strawweight championship)
Stipe Miocic-Junior Dos Santos (heavyweight championship)

[polishgenius]

Joanna Jedrzejczyk is so good you guys!



Poor Yair got himself found out. He needs to take a backseat for a while and learn how to wrestle, defensively at least. Too big a step. Edgar is a legend though (how good does that fight make Jose Aldo look)?

[Malankazooie]

UFC Fight Night 109
It was sorta "meh" for the most part, until the main fight (Gustafsson vs. Teixeira). Man, Gustafsson was ripping lightning upper cuts into Teixeira (damn Teixeira has a chin!). It went to the fifth round and then

A damn entertaining fight!

The cheesy marriage proposal afterwards detracts from how awesome the fight was though. I'm not a fan of public marriage proposals.

[Binder of Demons]

So the craziness is now official. MacGregor vs Mayweather is on.

Can't imagine spending any money to watch this on pay-per-view, but still can't wait to see what happens. The fight is almost the literal definition of someone only having a puncher's chance, but that's still a chance. Was really surprised to see the "concessions" form the Mayweather camp in terms of the weight class, and the weight of the gloves. I'd have expected them to use the heaviest gloves possible.

I fully expect to see Mayweather completely dominate the boxing exchanges, but I have to think that MacGregor will try some crazy shit to try and get in his head (I'm pretty sure a spinning backfist is technically legal in boxing, just not very wise). And as soon as it starts going south, expect to see a clinch and a leg trip and some shit talk on the ground.

As long as MacGregor doesn't get knocked the fuck out, he'll be claiming victory. But kudos to him for working an inequitable system to his favour massively. As i saw one tweet point out, he went from getting a $230 welfare check 4 years ago, to making potentially upwards of 100million for a single fight. Mental.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Binder of Demons, on 15 June 2017 - 06:09 PM, said:

So the craziness is now official. MacGregor vs Mayweather is on.

Can't imagine spending any money to watch this on pay-per-view, but still can't wait to see what happens. The fight is almost the literal definition of someone only having a puncher's chance, but that's still a chance. Was really surprised to see the "concessions" form the Mayweather camp in terms of the weight class, and the weight of the gloves. I'd have expected them to use the heaviest gloves possible.

I fully expect to see Mayweather completely dominate the boxing exchanges, but I have to think that MacGregor will try some crazy shit to try and get in his head (I'm pretty sure a spinning backfist is technically legal in boxing, just not very wise). And as soon as it starts going south, expect to see a clinch and a leg trip and some shit talk on the ground.

As long as MacGregor doesn't get knocked the fuck out, he'll be claiming victory. But kudos to him for working an inequitable system to his favour massively. As i saw one tweet point out, he went from getting a $230 welfare check 4 years ago, to making potentially upwards of 100million for a single fight. Mental.

Backfists are illegal in boxing---if he wanted to do a spinning punch, he'd have to land with the front of his hand. But superman punches are legal.

I don't know how much McGregor can actually get away with in/off the clinch. Or how willing to foul he may be. (He'll finally be allowed to land legal headbutts and bite off bits of ear, right? It's been so long since I've seen an MMA fighter get away with a headbutt... I miss them so.) If he's willing to do crazy shit maybe he can back Mayweather into the ropes, like iirc prime Sapp did against Ernesto Hoost in K-1.

At very least, given his past fights, I'd expect McGregor to mock Mayweather by literally turning his back and running around the ring. (Then maybe throw a superman punch?)

This would be a bit more interesting if it were under kickboxing or Muay Thai rules. But sure, Mayweather's age and ring rust probably give McGregor a puncher's chance.


Bloody Elbow's "Fight Science" makes an interesting claim about endurance: "The physical output in boxing over time is not necessarily greater than MMA, but more in-line with what an aerobic athlete endures. MMA, on the other hand, requires a combination of anaerobic and aerobic fitness that includes aspects such as stuffing takedowns, fighting in the clinch, grappling, defending in the guard or executing submissions. These are all examples of anaerobic elements of the game, which are devoid in boxing. The point we’re making here is that Conor has spent an inordinate amount of time training these anaerobic factors and conditioned his muscles in way that will not necessarily serve him in a boxing match. Reconditioning muscles to match the demands of a task takes thousands of hours of training the mind and the body. For example, an 800-Meter sprinter cannot recondition his muscles in a short period to effectively run the 1500-Meter race at a high-level."

So if McGregor hasn't had enough time to adjust, he'll probably gas hard in later rounds---even worse than he did in the Diaz fight. But this might encourage him to treat the first round or two as a sprint, going for his puncher's chance. And Mayweather has had trouble adjusting to southpaws in the past, but will probably get better at it as the fight progresses. If McGregor gasses hard enough to be taken out easily, viewers may at least be spared the boredom of a full length Mayweather snoozefest.
http://www.bloodyelb...hype-ufc-boxing

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 15 June 2017 - 07:13 PM

[Malankazooie]

McGregor v Mayweather is a money grab, plain and simple. If you thought Pacquiao v Mayweather was boring wait till this snooze fest. Mayweather is just going to evade the whole fight and win because it's boxing, not mma.

The best thing about this will be the press conferences and hype leading up to the fight. It will all be staged and scripted of course, but hopefully will be entertaining.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Malankazooie, on 15 June 2017 - 08:08 PM, said:

McGregor v Mayweather is a money grab, plain and simple. If you thought Pacquiao v Mayweather was boring wait till this snooze fest. Mayweather is just going to evade the whole fight and win because it's boxing, not mma.

The best thing about this will be the press conferences and hype leading up to the fight. It will all be staged and scripted of course, but hopefully will be entertaining.

Alas, if McGregor uses illegal techniques and gets DQ'd, he loses his purse: "Mayweather’s team apparently put a DQ prohibition directly in the contract." http://www.mixedmart...dq-at-maygregor

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 15 June 2017 - 08:17 PM

[Malankazooie]

Why would he get DQ'd? You think his muscle memory for MMA training is going to take over or something and he's going to choke out Mayweather? He's going to chase Mayweather around and attempt to land punches, and collect a hell of a lot of money for what will basically be a breezy sparring session. Easy peasy, lemon squeazy.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Malankazooie, on 15 June 2017 - 08:17 PM, said:

Why would he get DQ'd? You think his muscle memory for MMA training is going to take over or something and he's going to choke out Mayweather? He's going to chase Mayweather around and attempt to land punches, and collect a hell of a lot of money for what will basically be a breezy sparring session. Easy peasy, lemon squeazy.

He may be able to get away with a few fouls before being DQ'd, unless the contract somehow overrides that, or the referee makes a special exception (as iirc they sometimes do if a fighter is expected to fight dirty). But they do seem to allow a bunch of fouls (at least in high profile fights) before going from taking points to DQ (Tyson Holyfield springs to mind, also Golotta Bowe...).

In MMA a DQ doesn't automatically result in loss of purse. By that reasoning, he could KTFO of Mayweather, say it was an accident, and still make $50 million. But no.

[polishgenius]

It annoys me that we're having one of the best boxing years for ages and ages and all of a sudden all everyone's talking about is this, and lots of people are pretty much just going to see this and none of the actually quality boxing on show in 2017.

I mean, Kovalev and Ward are rematching this weekend. Barely pinging the radar.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Since boxers are iirc almost always allowed between 2 and 6 flagrant, intentional fouls before being DQ'd, it would be irrational for McGregor not to foul Mayweather---provided he does it in a way that won't prevent him from continuing. As Binder of Demons pointed out, we'd at least expect a takedown or something to mess with Mayweather's head and put him off guard.

But since Mayweather's own company (Mayweather Promotions) is promoting the fight, the best outcome for him financially would almost certainly be a McGregor DQ. Potentially an extra $50 million.

So if McGregor takes him down or trips him, Mayweather could make a completely bullshit claim of injury and insist he can't continue to force the DQ. (If it looks convincing enough, he could even parlay it into a rematch. And do it again.)

The worst scenario would be: McGregor clinches with Mayweather; Mayweather flops to the ground and claims Conor threw him; the referee doesn't know anything about wrestling or judo and assumes it's true; Mayweather says he can't continue....

Thankfully boxers are very rational people.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 15 June 2017 - 10:08 PM

[Malankazooie]

That's completely ignorant. None of that is going to happen. McGregor is going to box him straight up. That's stupid to think he would do anything else. McGregor will play up his shtick and taunt Mayweather and do all of his goofy ring antics that defines his brand, but he's not going to do anything stupid to get DQ'd.

Mayweather has no power to knock him out, and he is old to boot, so he's going to fight like he did Pacquiao, except against a less accomplished boxer. In other words, he's going to just avoid McGregor and land punches here and there. If McGregor lasts against Maywether and Mayweather wins by decision, that's a win for McGregor. And that, in all likelygood is what is going to happen. It's going to be boring as hell.

[amphibian]

Mayweather has the power to knock out Conor. He probably won't do it until later in the fight, but he will do it.

Floyd won't lose to anyone, not even the Big Show (a seven foot tall pro wrestler Floyd had a "match" with).

That being said, there is money to be had in two fights if they can somehow work out without the govt being mad.

This transcends both sports. It's draw vs draw with Mayweather being the A side. It's closer to carny fights from 200 years ago than anything else. And it's also going to be fascinating, except for the fight itself.

One shady thing being rumored is that McGregor is being paid for this fight over the duration of his UFC contract. That's wild and I'm not sure why that's happening.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Malankazooie, on 15 June 2017 - 10:37 PM, said:

That's completely ignorant. None of that is going to happen. McGregor is going to box him straight up. That's stupid to think he would do anything else. McGregor will play up his shtick and taunt Mayweather and do all of his goofy ring antics that defines his brand, but he's not going to do anything stupid to get DQ'd.

Mayweather has no power to knock him out, and he is old to boot, so he's going to fight like he did Pacquiao, except against a less accomplished boxer. In other words, he's going to just avoid McGregor and land punches here and there. If McGregor lasts against Maywether and Mayweather wins by decision, that's a win for McGregor. And that, in all likelygood is what is going to happen. It's going to be boring as hell.

Completely ignorant? I've seen boxers in high-profile fights take each other down and throw each other. And boxers are almost always allowed at least two to four flagrant intentional fouls before being DQ'd. So it would be irrational for McGregor to *not* foul Mayweather at least once, if he could be certain he wouldn't be DQ'd for it. Those are facts, not "complete ignorance"; that is logic, not stupidity.

Mayweather can definitely knock him out; if McGregor gasses anywhere near as hard as he did against Diaz, Mayweather will most likely score a TKO.

[Malankazooie]

Mayweather aint knocking out anyone cept maybe his current gf (look up his history, he's a scumbag). He's a boorish, boring, old fighter who is still quick enough to box his way to a win.
And believe me, McGregor is in it for the payday. He aint doing anything illegal. His only hope is to get lucky and catch Mayweather. In fact, I think he wants to legit breakthrough Mayweather's quickness and defense to score a knock down so he can brag about his preparation and execution like he does after every fight he wins.

[Malankazooie]

polishgenius, on 15 June 2017 - 09:15 PM, said:

It annoys me that we're having one of the best boxing years for ages and ages and all of a sudden all everyone's talking about is this, and lots of people are pretty much just going to see this and none of the actually quality boxing on show in 2017.

I mean, Kovalev and Ward are rematching this weekend. Barely pinging the radar.

Do you think a Triple G vs. Canelo fight will move the interest needle for boxing fans? It sure will me!

[amphibian]

You don't understand boxing if you think Mayweather has no power. He has brittle hands, which means he can throw too hard for his hands, which break regularly. Look this up.

His powerful bargaining position usually means that he picks foamy 8 oz gloves, which lets him throw harder than he would if he used horsehair or less foamy 8 oz, which boxers with stronger hand bones like more. This time, he's gone with the 10 oz, which means that both fighters will be able to throw harder than usual with less fear of a break. This undoubtedly favors Floyd more because he's gonna land more. The blows will initially hurt less, but Floyd's going to land quite a few and that will add up to a tired Conor, who will have his chin touched strong.

Floyd is a dirt bag, but he's made a ton of money and is one of the smarter fighters ever in terms of maximizing his earnings despite being not actually as good as he says he is. He's still better than everyone he's fought at the time he fought them, which is why he fought them at that time.

The age of truly extraordinary small boxers is perhaps gone. The days of Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Hagler, and so many more are over. The stuff they knew and their coaches knew never got handed down to people because other sports less brutal took over in the seventies and eighties.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 16 June 2017 - 03:22 AM

[amphibian]

GGG vs Canelo is a great fight, but it's not going to get as much buzz and buys because it's happening two weeks later, even if it's a different cable billing cycle. Dangerous fight for both.

[polishgenius]

amphibian, on 16 June 2017 - 02:28 AM, said:

The age of truly extraordinary small boxers is perhaps gone. The days of Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Hagler, and so many more are over. The stuff they knew and their coaches knew never got handed down to people because other sports less brutal took over in the seventies and eighties.

Have you seen Vasyl Lomachenko?


Also in September there's going to be a card featuring Roman Gonzalez' rematch with the guy who beat him, Naoya Inoue, and quite possibly Juan Francisco Estrada vs Carlos Cuadras. If that comes together that'll be card of the year by miles (and Gonzalez, at least, is definitely an extraordinary boxer).

I think the thing to remember is that boxing has only lost cachet in America. So while all that heritage and knowledge is a loss, other lineages are going to rise.

[amphibian]

polishgenius, on 16 June 2017 - 04:06 AM, said:

amphibian, on 16 June 2017 - 02:28 AM, said:

The age of truly extraordinary small boxers is perhaps gone. The days of Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Hagler, and so many more are over. The stuff they knew and their coaches knew never got handed down to people because other sports less brutal took over in the seventies and eighties.

Have you seen Vasyl Lomachenko?


Also in September there's going to be a card featuring Roman Gonzalez' rematch with the guy who beat him, Naoya Inoue, and quite possibly Juan Francisco Estrada vs Carlos Cuadras. If that comes together that'll be card of the year by miles (and Gonzalez, at least, is definitely an extraordinary boxer).

I think the thing to remember is that boxing has only lost cachet in America. So while all that heritage and knowledge is a loss, other lineages are going to rise.

Naoya will win again.

I've seen Lomachencko. He's good, but it's really something to go back and watch boxers of the 1970s and 1980s. They're just flat out smarter and needed more skills to be competitive back then.

The rise of UK heavyweights has been terrific, but they're not terrifically skilled (yet). I hope there's more and more coming, especially since the UK doesn't really have a "big person" sports scene beyond rugby.