[Gem Windcaster]

Obdigore said:

Yes, my point is that whatever he had created, for himself, with his mind was made real in the refuge.

But that's because he is an ascendant, ghost or no ghost.

Obdigore said:

So, that makes that sack of munitions on his back real.

Why would the sack be real because he got a body? That doesn't make any sense, this isn't some fiery tale that grants three wishes.

Obdigore said:

Now, did he think it was a never-ending sack, and so it still is? or does he just have a couple sharpers in there and thats it?

I think, if he still got the never ending sack, it's because he is still an ascendant, and still have the will of an ascendant, thus he can produce cussers for all eternity. His ghost body might not have been a 'real' body, bust it was nevertheless real. Oh my, Hedge has to have an endless supply of cussers, if my argument is correct. I hope it is!

[Obdigore]

Gem Windcaster;191846 said:

But that's because he is an ascendant, ghost or no ghost. Why would the sack be real because he got a body? That doesn't make any sense, this isn't some fiery tale that grants three wishes. I think, if he still got the never ending sack, it's because he is still an ascendant, and still have the will of an ascendant, thus he can produce cussers for all eternity. His ghost body might not have been a 'real' body, bust it was nevertheless real. Oh my, Hedge has to have an endless supply of cussers, if my argument is correct. I hope it is!

1) Yes. Because he is an ascendant, what he held in his mind as 'himself' because his corporeal form.

2) See #1.

3) Yes, he MIGHT have hte power to continue producing cussers with his mind and 'ascendant' power. Does he know it? Is that what his ascendant power is? As said by the 2 dragons to Paran, 'When you ascend, you become more powerfull, and power draws power.' (Thats the gist of it anyway).

So I assume all ascendants are powerful in some way. Is hedge's the ability to create, with his mind and instantly, cusser after cusser?

[Talamadas]

Let's all greet the new Lord of Cussers, Lord of Moranth Munitions or Lord of Saboteurs/Sappers.
Although we know that sapper don't like to be promoted.

We will see if Hedge has some new abilities.( It wouldn't hurt the Bonehunters or maybe? )

[Sir Thursday]

It seems saner to me to assume that the contents of Hedge's sack became fixed when he entered the Refugium, and he now has the amount that he had in the sack at that time, less what he's used on Silchas, Sheltatha and Menandore.

We haven't seen any other ascendants with the ability to just create stuff out of nothing, I don't see why Hedge should be any different in that. Otherwise why wouldn't ascendants just be able to pull swords, etc. out of thin air? Silchas wouldn't have needed the swords from Brys to get free of Sheltatha in the Azath, he could just have fabricaticated his own.


Sir Thursday

[Gem Windcaster]

I think the reason noone has been able to 'draw a sword out of thin air' is that the idea is ridiculous because swords don't blow up. And why would the cusser sack be related in any way to Hedge's body being real? It doesn't make any sense. I know, that was my first thought aswell, but I don't believe in it anymore. And I don't think you'd call Hedge having an endless supply as any more strange than someone having a sword that is a prison? Or having a hammer that can destroy an entire realm?

[Sir Thursday]

Actually, I would call it stranger - it upsets the balance of things to have an infinite supply of things, and doesn't appear to fit in any way, shape or form with how things work in Wu. Magical artifacts I can understand - they are singular and are made...and they're magic. A neverending source of non-magical artifacts I can't - they haven't been made by anyone, they just appear, and they don't have any magical properties of their own.

To me it makes sense that the sack is related to Hedge's body becoming real. Before entering the Refugium, Hedge's sack is an extension of himself - it exists because of a manifestation of will, just like Hedge's own body. So when the Refugium 'solidifies' Hedge into reality again, it 'solidifies' the sack too, because they are generated by the same process. Thus the sack ends up in the state it was in Hedge's mind when he entered the Refugium, and the number of cussers within begins to diminish as he starts using them.

See, perfect sense .

Sir Thursday

[Dark Mac]

Sir Thursday;191855 said:

Silchas wouldn't have needed the swords from Brys to get free of Sheltatha in the Azath, he could just have fabricaticated his own.

That's a bad example. There were plenty of things Silchas couldn't do at the time, including destroying Sheltatha with Kurald Galain/Starvald Demelain or turning into a dragon.

[polishgenius]

Hedge with unlimited Cussers? That'd put him right at the top of the Malazan League of Top Level Threats.

>_>

[Aptorian]

Questions about Hedge I find more interesting after the end of RG are.

1. It appears that Hedge after leaving the Imass place is alive and once again made out of mortal flesh, does that mean he's no longer ascendant? Say he's given up that power, intentionally or not, by rejoining Fiddler and the Bonehunters.

2. Can an ascendant ghost like the BBs be captured or controlled like Samar Dev did with the Ceda or Feather Witch attempted with Brys finger? If someone entered Moons spawn and took pieces of the dead BBs could he then wield the dead marines like Kellanved once did with the T'lan Imass?

3. If the munitions power was only limited by Hedges own knowledge of moranth munitions could he then will into being a 5 by 5 meter wide unstable cusser?... then give the thing a kick!

[Gem Windcaster]

I don't agree sir thursday, a magical cusser sack is no stranger than a magical sword, or another weapon. Seriously. And I still stick to me previous argument.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

Aptorian;191938 said:

3. If the munitions power was only limited by Hedges own knowledge of moranth munitions could he then will into being a 5 by 5 meter wide unstable cusser?... then give the thing a kick!

If he wanted to lose his leg, then yes he could.

Your point about controlling the BB's using bodyparts makes alot of sense to me, and would be a great twist, but isnt WJ buried in there too?

And as WJ's not appearing in any of the books now, I'd have to think it's unlikely someone would resurrect the others but not him, so a new T'lan Imass BB army is unlikely I think.

[Abyss]

Hedge WAS an ascended ghost. That's not the same thing as a living ascended mortal (Apsalar, Trull), a dead ascended mortal who still has a body (Baudin, Brys)) or an Ascendant who dies and becomes a god (Trake)...

Point being, there's no precedent that we've scene for what Hedge is. Could be as simple as poof, now he's alive and mortal and has to get his munitions at the local Moranth Depot store the same way everyone else does...,

...or he could in fact be more than mortal on the basis of having dies, the Tano song, his trip through the warrens, the Refuge and everything else he's done/been.

That being said, going back to the exercise of will thing, i doubt he could just create a 5x5 cusser... i would think he'd be limited to the 'products' he used to deal with as a mortal. And remember he never manufactured a Moranth munition in his 'life' - he just used/played with the ones the Moranth gave the Malazans.

- Abyss, wonders whether Fid or Hedge can make a better drum.

[drinksinbars]

as i understand it, whiskeyjack was a servant of hood. a mason of death so to speak. As told by the story of him and fiddler rescuing his little sister dunsparrow.

as for hedge, well him and the bridgeburners ascended and when paran awakens them at the lake( not their first time HOC ending too) hedge takes on his old form by the strength of his will. when he is damaged by the cusser his imagination is creating the damage he expects, but it is only qan illusion and so he simply reimagines his fully ehaled body.

i assume that hedge is almost like a high mage of meanas, using the illusion of flesh of create flesh. and the illusion of cussers, to create booms!!

[Sir Thursday]

Gem Windcaster;191987 said:

I don't agree sir thursday, a magical cusser sack is no stranger than a magical sword, or another weapon. Seriously. And I still stick to me previous argument.

We'll just have to agree to disagree then...

I just can't see Hedge being able to do his manifestation of will thing now that he has his mortal flesh back...to me that seems like something a non-corporeal being would do, not someone who is flesh and blood again.


Sir Thursday

[Agraba]

When Hedge shot the imass woman, she just stepped into the Refugium, right? Meaning if he shot her earlier, the cusser would have flown right through her.

It's too bad though; Hedge should have conjured up everything he ever wanted before walking into the Refugium. Too bad he had no way of knowing (though the fact that the Imass blew up may have hinted him).

[Dolorous Menhir]

Agraba;192222 said:

When Hedge shot the imass woman, she just stepped into the Refugium, right? Meaning if he shot her earlier, the cusser would have flown right through her.

It's too bad though; Hedge should have conjured up everything he ever wanted before walking into the Refugium. Too bad he had no way of knowing (though the fact that the Imass blew up may have hinted him).

The T'lan Imass may be skeletal, doesn't mean they are insubstantial.

He blew up the Imass before she reached the Refugium. A body part got blown into the Refugium though, and Hedge noted that it had returned to flesh and blood. Too late to do her any good though.

[Agraba]

Oh.... silly memory.

[Gem Windcaster]

Sir Thursday;192052 said:

We'll just have to agree to disagree then...

I just can't see Hedge being able to do his manifestation of will thing now that he has his mortal flesh back...to me that seems like something a non-corporeal being would do, not someone who is flesh and blood again.

A mere mortal wouldn't, that's true.

[Kage-za]

Thelomen Toblerone;191993 said:

If he wanted to lose his leg, then yes he could.

Your point about controlling the BB's using bodyparts makes alot of sense to me, and would be a great twist, but isnt WJ buried in there too?

And as WJ's not appearing in any of the books now, I'd have to think it's unlikely someone would resurrect the others but not him, so a new T'lan Imass BB army is unlikely I think.

In the interview when SE said that WJ was definitely not returning, didn't he also say that there would only be one more important ressurection of a dead character?

So is Hedge the big ressurection?

[kaf09]

Kage-za;192583 said:

In the interview when SE said that WJ was definitely not returning, didn't he also say that there would only be one more important ressurection of a dead character?

So is Hedge the big ressurection?

Or is Brys Beddict? Or did SE err?