[Obdigore]

So I am confused.

I, when reading the book, thought that the Shake were Andii Descendants. And yet, they have claws, so I assumed mutation.

Now, reading some threads on here, it seems that it is thought they are mixing blood with Kchainmeal.

Anyone else get hints that the Shake were Andii blood? I can throw some quotes when I get home, but just wondering...

[Lister of Smeg]

Judging from the descriptions of the demonic babies, I assumed throughout the book that they had a connection to the KCCM. It was really only Clip's statement to Nimander about the Shake being related that links them to the Andii, as far as I remember.

[Obdigore]

Lister of Smeg;187889 said:

Judging from the descriptions of the demonic babies, I assumed throughout the book that they had a connection to the KCCM. It was really only Clip's statement to Nimander about the Shake being related that links them to the Andii, as far as I remember.

And Nimander thinking about how he (and phaed) should stay and teach these people about their past. Bring them back to the dark, as it were.

But like I said, quotes and page numbers when I get home, just seeing if anyone else remembers this.

[Giles]

thought the main give away was that they had andii names personally

[Gem Windcaster]

I thought they were not only related to the andii, but also eleint. They have dragon claws after all. And if you read the part where Twilight thinks back on how the children that was born with too many differences (scales etc.) were killed, it's kinda obvious it has to be dragons. Some mystery.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

Yeah, the passage where one of the malazans is explaining the origins of the Shake names as Andii and the part where Clip is talking about bringing them back to the fold made it seem pretty evident to me.

The problem with the mutations though is the whole KCCM link- is it that the shake have shared Andii/KCCM ancestry? Is it that the Andii are part KCCM? Could it be that the shake were experimented upon or somesuch by the Che'Malle?

Or could the mutations be completely unrelated to the K'chain? Maybe they just have eleint blood or something. Cant wait 'til the next few books to find out!

[Obdigore]

Yes, TotH by July. That is my new bandwagon. SE, get written!

(although front page says he is already well into it. Give me a chance to proofread it? please?)

[Dolorous Menhir]

Thelomen Toblerone;187924 said:

The problem with the mutations though is the whole KCCM link- is it that the shake have shared Andii/KCCM ancestry? Is it that the Andii are part KCCM? Could it be that the shake were experimented upon or somesuch by the Che'Malle?

Or could the mutations be completely unrelated to the K'chain? Maybe they just have eleint blood or something. Cant wait 'til the next few books to find out!

They were talking about how the mutations came from the ocean. It seems the KCCM spawned in oceans, and people who lived along the coasts are somehow infected or mutated with KCCM characteristics from the sea.

If you remember when Karsa killed the Short-Tail in BH, Samar Dev looked at the corpse and saw what I can only describe as nano-robots in its blood. Perhaps there are similar devices in the seas, causing random mutations in the coastal dwellers.

[Danyah]

The explanation is somewhere in the book. KCCM lay eggs in the sea. Matron claims them and turns them into the beasties she needs. The unclaimed onces jump up to pregnant females of other species and mingle with the embryo/take it's place outright.

The ancesters of these shake were supposed to protect the shore from these abominations.

That's what I understood.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

Ouch, that's a nasty process.

I dont even wanna imagine how the KCCM egg/foetus thing gets inside the Shake women's wombs to blend with their foetus'.

[caladanbrood]

Was it the KCCM? I remember something like that, you're right, but was it related to the KCCM at all?

[Dark Mac]

Yes, it was KCCM.

[Mezla PigDog]

Ummm, doesn't Clip (or someone) at the end also say there's Edur blood in the Shake as well?

I just figured they were mutant kids from inbreeding, not anything fancy. There weren't supposed to many left, after all. But then I'm not one for speculating. I wait for these things to be spelled out to me in the book So what I'm doing here is beyond me, you folks is cwazy.

[Murrin]

The Shake are apparently descendants of Andii who have lost half their legends as well as mixing their blood with local tribes. The parts of their lore they remember were those involving looking out for K'Chain Chemalle spawning from the sea, and killing the ones that they find.
Along with everything else they lost is their original magic, Kurald Galain, so further down the line we see how the Shake have found that K'Chain genetic material gives them some magical ability, so they've started allowing the mutated children to live in the minor cases, becoming their witches and warlocks, while they go on killing the major cases of mutation.

[fortyseven]

Someone says the Shake have Andii, Edur, possibly Liosan blood.

[dolfanuk]

that would make them the first full pure tiste race that we have encountered right?

[Aptorian]

No I think the only pure Andii we've seen are the ones hanging out in Black Corall right now.

[Obdigore]

Aptorian;204594 said:

No I think the only pure Andii we've seen are the ones hanging out in Black Corall right now.

Apt, he said Tiste, not Andii.

IE, they have blood from Andii, Edur, and the one I can never remember.

But I don't think they are pure, as there is human blood in there, and, imo, KCCM blood (or nano-robots)

[Abyss]

There are three elements at work here:

- Andii - Firstly, the Shake are descended from Andii who were tasked with hanging out on the shores of Leth or thereabouts, to prevent immature KC from leaving the ocean and being taken over by Matrons. Apparently, these Andii crossbred with humans;

- Other Tiste - Someone (Deadsmell, Clip or Nimander i think), suggested there is also blood from Edur and/or Liosan mixed in. We know historically that both Edur and Andii lived on Leth, and were even allied at one point, and that they can crossbreed. The inclusion of the Liosan seems just for reference to the possibility, since we have no idea id they've ever lived on Leth. We do know, via Loric, that they can crossbreed as well.

- KC - their pre-Matron takeover breeding process apparently allows for eggs to 'implant' in other races. Presumably at some point individuals with eggs that hand't turned into full-blown KC crossbred with the Tiste/human people who became the Shake. There's another hint (utterly minor and barely rating a spoiler warning) towards this in LEES OF LAUGHTER'S END.

Two other possibilities, both pure spec:
One is that the mix of Tiste and human bloodlines resulted in some mutation of genetics that triggered the claws, scales, etc.

The other is FA crossbreeding - this is raised on the idea that Poleil/Soliel are described somewhat like FA, but with clawed feet. This seems unlikeliest of all, but there it is.

- Abyss, notes we thought mapping the HUMAN genome was complicated...