[Skywalker]

I'm about 110 pages into RG, so this may contain very minor spoilers. I was struck once again by Erikson's depth of thought - the way he can use just a few paragraphs to show the fragility of entire civilizations, and map out their rise and inevitable demise.

I felt this before when he described the Moranth/ Barghast and Rhivi in MOI, or the Teblor and Seti (via Koryk) and Wickans in HOC, the Nerek and even the Tiste Edur in MT... and now in RG... The whole passage with Redmask stealing back a herd from the Letherii, with the POV of the Letherii teenager as counterpoint is so heartbreakingly well written! So much pathos!

Time and again Erikson brings his archaeologist past to bear on his fiction writing, as much in his world building as in his plotting. The more I think about it, the more it seems this is the one thing that sets him apart from others in the genre whose worlds aren't as *grounded* or *believable*, or (shudder) those that scorn detailed world building.

Anyway... enough of a rave, methinks. Did anyone else react similarly to that passage? Me back to RG now...

[blewin]

absolutely. To achieve that emotional depth as well as the physical of an entire culture usually takes a number of books to carry out, but SE does it so brilliantly with only a few pages. And he's going to keep doing it (Karsa's people next!).

it just shows how rich the history of this earth is.

and an amazing writer.

[Gem Windcaster]

I agree, and it's more than just knowledge of civilizations - he asks philosophical questions, and he's very good at it- he always has a point. I can only imagine SE sitting somewhere in a desert, with a little brush, contemplating the rise and fall of some ancient civilization. No wonder he knows how to depict nut cases so well.

[StormofHeaven]

I was looking over past threads and i saw this. I was also intrigued with the passage of Onrack and the wolves. Hunting together and then thinking if this was how Dogs got domesticated in the first place. By the necessity to kill off other prey. Good passage and got me thinking.

[Mentalist]

yes... SE does it very well
The whole "clash of civilizations" theme is the one I follw very closely throughout these books...(so i'm a little fixated on civilizatons clash, lol, but that's old news)

[Abyss]

I have always really enjoyed how he ties various civilizations/peoples together without making it obvious...

First Empire - > 7 Cities -> Leth

Jaghut -> Thelomen -> Imass -> Bhargast -> Rhivi

Edur -> Bhargast -> Moranth

Eleint -> Wyval -> eww...

- Abyss, does NOT intend the above to re-open the 'Wait, Bhargast are Thelomen/Edur/Marmot crossbreeds' debate...

[powermad]

yeah i have to admit his writing about different civilizations are brilliant. really does set him apart from others in the genre. yeah i hope he does something on the teblor and the toblakai and how they got seperated. that would be classic.

[amphibian]

I've always been surprised at just how much people move around in the MBotF. I think Fiddler and Karsa are the most traveled currently (among mortals), but everyone gets around.

I know that ancient people covered considerable distances before even the domestication of horses, but when you consider that Polynesian islanders would regularly take voyages over 1000 miles, European merchants would go on the Silk Road, Native Americans would walk hundreds of miles for dream quests and Rodeo fulfills his need for beer every weekend, the constant motion of human beings boggles the mind.

[lorddarkflare]

Hmm, i think we know how the Teblor and the Tablokai were separated; either Pung or Karsa mentioned it in RG. The 5 exiled gods were the founders of the Teblor, i think they got there by canoe.

[Nequam]

Aren't the Teblor and the Toblakai the same thing?

I specifically remember in the beginning of House of chains when the "faces in the Rock" were first showed speaking, they metioned how far the Teblor have fallen, and they do not even remember their real names.

Also the Toblakai peoples were all over the world at one time right? So Karsa's people didn't get separated, they were just the ones on Genebackis. When their blood began to turn "clouded" due to all of the inter-breeding with humans, Icarium took tons of them (or at least the ones close/in the mountains) and gave them rules of isolation and ways of tribal living to purify themselves.

[Skywalker]

The 'Teblor', the 'Toblakai', very possibly the 'Fenn' are all descendents of the same uber group - the Thelomen Tartheno Toblakai.

As far as I could recall, the 'Teblor' are the remnant of a TTT tribe on Genabackis, what remained in the aftermath of a war between them and the T'lan Imass ('mediated' by both the Forkrul Assail and Icarium). Karsa runs across the cave with the remains of a TTT elder who had decided to break them into tribes (Rathyd, Sunyd, etc.) and encourage primitive living so as to reinvigorate them and free them of their baggage of hatred. He believed that the back to basics era will strengthen them and help them survive.

At an unknown point in time after the split and reverting to primitiveness, the Unbound Seven T'lan Imass (The Faces in the Rock) were stumbled upon and became 'Teblor' gods...

The Toblakai 'gods' on the Letherii continent were actual tyrannical TTT who were feared by the TTT populace on that landmass. They weren't so much worshipped as they were warded against. Hence the whole deal with the old man carting shit to their shrine.

As far as we know, although the Teblor and the Toblakai are the same genus, there is no connection between the Unbound Seven Faces in the Rock (who now serve the Crippled God and hunted down Heboric in TB, and one of whom was killed by Hedge in the Refugium in RG) and the TTT gods (who were one and all killed by Iron Bars and his allies during the Seventh Closure).

[cerveza_fiesta]

Quote

- Abyss, does NOT intend the above to re-open the 'Wait, Bhargast are Thelomen/Edur/Marmot crossbreeds' debate...

you just haaad to bring it up eh?

ON topic

I agree with the first post entirely, and add in the idea of futility. Like the Imass vs. Jaghut and how neither side, even after 300 years has totally "won"...and the imass now don't even think of futility itself because their struggle is so futile. I get an impression of sh*t happens, the world turns, more sh*t happens...etc... from the MBotF, as though all these great empires struggling against one another now will all just end up the same as everything else...dust (or some equally depressing substance).

[Mentalist]

sky_walker;246690 said:

The 'Teblor', the 'Toblakai', very possibly the 'Fenn' are all descendents of the same uber group - the Thelomen Tartheno Toblakai.

As far as I could recall, the 'Teblor' are the remnant of a TTT tribe on Genabackis, what remained in the aftermath of a war between them and the T'lan Imass ('mediated' by both the Forkrul Assail and Icarium). Karsa runs across the cave with the remains of a TTT elder who had decided to break them into tribes (Rathyd, Sunyd, etc.) and encourage primitive living so as to reinvigorate them and free them of their baggage of hatred. He believed that the back to basics era will strengthen them and help them survive.

At an unknown point in time after the split and reverting to primitiveness, the Unbound Seven T'lan Imass (The Faces in the Rock) were stumbled upon and became 'Teblor' gods...

The Toblakai 'gods' on the Letherii continent were actual tyrannical TTT who were feared by the TTT populace on that landmass. They weren't so much worshipped as they were warded against. Hence the whole deal with the old man carting shit to their shrine.

As far as we know, although the Teblor and the Toblakai are the same genus, there is no connection between the Unbound Seven Faces in the Rock (who now serve the Crippled God and hunted down Heboric in TB, and one of whom was killed by Hedge in the Refugium in RG) and the TTT gods (who were one and all killed by Iron Bars and his allies during the Seventh Closure).

We had a genealogy thread somewhere.. I think it's called the "Evolutionary tree of Wu," and it was started by Clip
It pretty much explains this stuff
The 5 gods were Tartheno, not Teblor.
What happened on Genabackis was a war b/w T'lann Imass and the Jaghut--the TTT wh would become Teblor happened to be stuck in the middle.. Icarium was also involved, helping to put down the FA....
We have never met anyone who straight-out calls themselves a "Toblakai" Cept for Karsaa himself, but that is just a shortened form of TTT