[tiam]

phart;189453 said:

2 years old or something, i would think that ICE and Erikson would have talked a lot especially considering the night in question.

Maybe. I honestly thought it was later so yeh they probably did talk about the facts. but one reference to one other prisoner does not constitute him being considered the first usurper of shadow. That would mean this human (jhedel was human esque) preceeded dragons and possibly edgewalker.

Aardvark- Dont agree with your theory. If he was already imprisoned why would he help Kilamandaros. Also if he was already chained tand in the warren how could he be busy elsewhere. He wouldnt have done it pre sundering as it wouldnt be vulnerable. It was only when the warren started falling apart and scabby died that it was vulnerable and could be cliamed. Prior to the sundering it would be like claiming KG from Rake

[Danyah]

Because it is his task to walk the borders of KE and defend them as a slave, which he considers being better off than most (can't blame him, the alternative is entombment). As defender of the Edges, he would assist KIL in cleansing the realm from usurpers, no? In NoK, he also waits for the stormriders and Jhenna to oppose their entry in Shadow. Being busy with those things, he couldn't oppose ST&C.

And Jhedel is a demon lord for the far reaches of shadow. So no humans in the picture here...

[tiam]

lol i assume you read NOK recently. I havemt read it in a while but i just think certain 'facts' from NOK shouldnt count.

Why would an EG exist to walk the borders of shadow before the sundering? I admit he NOW 'defends' the edges of shadow. But at the time why would he walk the edges of shadow? The reference of Edgewalker not being able to help is because he is an EG and would help. Like Mael did although apparently he often buries his head in the sand. In any case cliaming because EW walked the edges of shadow pre sundering is wrong

[Danyah]

Yeah, reread it yesterday.

IMO, the sundering began with Scabby killing the royal Edur...
So Eggies usurpation attempt should have occured after that and before the cleansing by Rake and KIL.

Of course, with what is known, SE can easily prove us both wrong in one of the next books... but I'll stick to that idea for now. It's gonna be a long wait after all.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Aardvark;189477 said:

Yeah, reread it yesterday.

IMO, the sundering began with Scabby killing the royal Edur...
So Eggies usurpation attempt should have occured after that and before the cleansing by Rake and KIL.

Of course, with what is known, SE can easily prove us both wrong in one of the next books... but I'll stick to that idea for now. It's gonna be a long wait after all.

If I remember the phrase right, Scabby is supposed to have begun the Sundering by "spilling blood." That could refer to the dead Royals, but I thought it was a reference to Sorrit.

[Danyah]

"After murdering the royal line of the Edur!" Eloth said in a hiss. After spilling draconean blood in the heart of Kurald Emurlahn! After opening the first, fatal wound upon that warren! What did he think gates were?"

Eloth to Cotillion, TB TPB p 52-53.

I thought Sorrit was pure Eleint, while the Edur Royals are draconean. Whoever those royals were, their blood caused the gates to rip KE to pieces if I understood right.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Dragons are draconean too. I read that quote as two separate offences - killing the royals, spilling draconean blood (i.e. Sorrit). That's one interpretation, it may not be the right one.

It's not known if the Edur royals were Soletaken Eleint.

[Danyah]

Could be right too. It's not clear. The blackwood is a giveaway that Sorrit was murdered in Shadow/by Edur. But since Serc is a younger warren, that would mean that K'rul had shaped the Warrens even before the sundering of KE. Otherwise it would make no sense for K'rul to gift an aspect to a ritually slaughtered dragon. That would hint that the Warrens accesible for humans were there from the beginning.

I remember a character saying "I witnessed the last flight of the dragons in to SD." SD and KG are also the twin chambers to the heart of K'rul. Would that mean that the last flight was the act of aspecting the dragons? And if so, how comes there are still aspected dragons outside of SD?

[Where is Dassem Ultor?]

Edgewalker is Grizzin Farl (or whatever the hell his name is), the Elder God of the KCCM.

Well, that just about ties up all the loose threads, especially now that we know Setchul Lath (and again, I can't even remember in which book the listing of obscure elder gods took place) is the Elder God of the FA. Hah.