[frank]

Since Scabandari can't kill Silchas Ruin, doesn't this mean that Ruin must be more powerful? Maybe even by far? I have the impression that they are more or less on the same power level, but this would indicate something else.

[Binder of Demons]

Not really, since MAel and Killy didn't kill SCABBY either, saying it would lead to his spirit wandering and only marginally reduced in power. Hence Gothos and the finnest and the ritual etc.

So it could simply be the case for Ruin, as well, SCABBY could destroy the body, but the spirit would remain and likely manifest itself again in some other way.

[frank]

But scabby COULDN'T. It was not by choise...

[Rat Mentor]

I guess Ruin must be more powerful than Scabby as he drank deeper from Tiam.

[Midnight]

i think it could mean that they are of equal power because in order to completely destroy Silchas, Scabandari would have to be much more powerful. He could be at a comparable level of power just not more powerful. Hope that makes sense...

[Bottle]

Binder of Demons;172633 said:

Not really, since MAel and Killy didn't kill SCABBY either, saying it would lead to his spirit wandering and only marginally reduced in power. Hence Gothos and the finnest and the ritual etc.

If you read the Reaper's Gale prologue, it clear states that scabandari couldn't be killed because of the ritual. Not the other way around. Kilamandaros was about to kill scabandari, until Mael and Gothos explained that he wouldn't die beacuse of the ritual.

As for why scabandari couldn't kill ruin. My guess is that they where of equal power, like midnight states above. Unless what Rat mentor states is true. But I can't remember where that's mentioned. (page number anyone?)

[Mithfanion]

The MT prologue's wording is such that I interpreted it to say that Silchas Ruin was too powerful to be killed outright. Not just by Scabandari, but by anyone. Hence the use of the Azath, which could hold him prisoner.

I did not think it referred to just Scabandari being unable to do so.

[Aptorian]

Quote

“Very well. Kilmandaros. Within the Ritual that now descends upon this land, upon the battlefields and these ugly forests, death itself is denied. Should you kill the Tiste Edur here, his soul will be unleashed from his flesh, but it will remain, only marginally reduced in power.”

I'm not sure if this is actual proof that Scabby was only affected by the ritual. He should have been a very powerfull soul, a soul who needed taming, Powerfull souls dont just fall into line.

[frank]

What I got a problem with is that independent of powerlevel there shouldn't be a problem with killing someon at your own level

[Aptorian]

killing him isn't the problem, containing the soul is another thing. Think of all the Jaghuts that were bound by Tellan sorcery after their bodies were broken.

[frank]

If killing him isn't the problem, why is it that scabby can't?

[Marcus]

My understanding was also that Scabandari could kill Ruin, if by killing we mean body failure, but it would only release his soul. After his spirit is free and recuperated presumably Ruin could find a way to restore himself (- maybe with the help of any remaining kin). It makes alot more sense then to incapacitate Ruin and throw him into a eternal prison from which there are no rescue.

[Father Light]

not absolutely certain of my own opinion yet, but after repeated re reads i'm beginning to think of ruin as the single most powerful character in the series regardless of magic.

[James Hetfield]

Not sure thaty i agree with Ruin being the single most powerful character. IMO Icarium is more powerful. Gods, Azath, High Mages and other ascendents fear him(his wrath). If he can wound a warren, kill cities with thousands of inhabitants and have no memory, he is the most dangerous single individual.
Of course maybe he uses a warren to enhance his powers. Hence the whining sound he makes.

[Jheral]

Being the most dangerous individual doesn't neccessarily mean being the most powerful. I think it's more a matter of control. There are more powerful people out there, a lot of them probably, but they are all in complete control of their power. Icarium doesn't really have any control, and is kept from gaining control by that memory problem he has.

Anyway, I'm more inclined to believe that Silchas Ruin is much more powerul than Bloodeye. Remember that Ruin was weaponless, and Scabby still didn't dare fight him, stabbing him in the back instead. Of course, that doesn't have to mean that he's more powerful, but that Scabby just didn't want to risk fighting him, but I still get the impression that he is more powerful.

Not that raw power seem to matter much in these books...

[Dark Mac]

I also thought that Ruin seemed substantially more powerful than Bloodeye.

James Hetfield;173437 said:

Not sure thaty i agree with Ruin being the single most powerful character. IMO Icarium is more powerful. Gods, Azath, High Mages and other ascendents fear him(his wrath). If he can wound a warren, kill cities with thousands of inhabitants and have no memory, he is the most dangerous single individual.
Of course maybe he uses a warren to enhance his powers. Hence the whining sound he makes.

And his father encased a continent in ice. Raest without his Finnest could've destroyed Darujhistan easily. And Icarium even thought Dassem could beat him...

[spiralx]

Actually in the prologue of MT which I've just reread Scabby thinks that he can't kill SR but he doesn't know what Gothos is doing - in fact he stabs SR while SR is looking at Gothos using Omtose Phellack, trying to work out what he's doing. So it can't just be the ritual that means that Scabby couldn't kill SR, it was something else, hence him dumping SR in the Azath.

[drinksinbars]

i am pretty certain that the whole powerful soul thing is pure crap, no offense of course, but it just doesnt fit witht he rest of the series. scabi couldnt kill ruin, so he temporarally paralysed him so that he could imprison him.

the ritual remember stopped the souls passing through hoods gate on letheras, so when sabi was killed his soul was freed, had it been anywhere else then his soul would have been hoods. i know people like to ignore GOTM but rake clearly states that he may die facing off against shadowthrone and cottilion or later against raest and the galayn lord. Not released, but killed, and rake aint no slouch int he power department.

also menadore and dapple when speaking about rake and osserc wonder why neither kills the other and say they are too close in power, or maybe dont want to. there is no mention of release, only death. the fact is, scabi wasnt strong enough to kill ruin so he betrayed him and imprisoned him. when scabi was killed his soul acted just like all the souls on letheras and drifted, except his was captured by gothos.

[pat5150]

Just to add oil to the fire, at least one god fears Silchas Ruin. . .

Patrick

[Father Light]

all the god's would be wise to fear him, he killed 5 of them!!! he destroys 5 toblakai gods of karsa's ilk with ease and destroyed a city's worth of forkrul assail, one of whom annihilated karsa.

methinks he's nails.