[buddhacat]

Coldsnap;173852 said:

I believe that Olar Ethil was an Imass Ascendant... perhaps the first mortal to ascend on Wu, and as well the first shaman/mage. I believe that Ethil did thus drink the deepest from Tiam. It is possible that Tiam allows certain prime ascendants of a race to drink from her based on her perceived understanding of their honor, integrity, bah, too much speculation here.

I remember from tBH (may be Cotillion's meeting with the Dragons or his conversation with Mappo) where it's stated that Olar Ethil was an elemental force or god (like Kilmandaros) who was aspected to the human race (Imass.) May be someone with a sharper memory can confirm. In any case, the impression conveyed was that she is far older than humans or Imass or even Eres.

[Mael]

Coldsnap;173852 said:

The imass themselves, though it was speculated that they destroyed the 'First' empire out of rage for them having taken the title First empire, performed this task to rid the world of an empire of soletaken and diver's. Likewise, in MOI, they are concerned with taking care of the undead KM and the Pannion Jagut.

Dessembelakis' using the name "first empire" was not he reason the Imass destroyed it. They viewed it as human concietedness and shook thier heads in wry ammusement, in other words...they didn't really care. When the T'lan Imass showed up the empire was essentially already destroyed with the Soletaken Ritual running rampant and creating D'ivers and Soletaken all over the place who were ripping each other, and everything else in sight, to pieces. The T'lan Imass essentially just showed up to clean house since they didn't like what was happening and what would be left over when it was finished.

Quote

I remember from tBH (may be Cotillion's meeting with the Dragons or his conversation with Mappo) where it's stated that Olar Ethil was an elemental force or god (like Kilmandaros) who was aspected to the human race (Imass.) May be someone with a sharper memory can confirm. In any case, the impression conveyed was that she is far older than humans or Imass or even Eres.

In MoI Olar Ethil is introduced as the First Imass Bonecaster, so she is about as young as Imass can get, but not as Elder as the Eres. Remember the term Elder god is suggestive. After all Dessembelakis's first empire worshipped the elder gods. Since the Imass came long (very long) before the human first empire, Olar Ethil's assention would in fact classify her as elder with regard to the pantheon.

[Aptorian]

According to the Draconean Family Tree Olar Ethil is of the unfound age, so attempting to trust in Baruk, she/he's not young that's for sure.

My memory is a bit fuzzy, have we met Olar ethil yet? Was she at the grand meeting in MoI?

It must have been Olar Ethil that was sitting and waiting at the end of the Path of Hands of course, but have we seen the character in "Humanoid" form yet?

[buddhacat]

Mael;173953 said:

In MoI Olar Ethil is introduced as the First Imass Bonecaster, so she is about as young as Imass can get, but not as Elder as the Eres. Remember the term Elder god is suggestive. After all Dessembelakis's first empire worshipped the elder gods. Since the Imass came long (very long) before the human first empire, Olar Ethil's assention would in fact classify her as elder with regard to the pantheon.

The point is that she is NOT an ascended Imass. She predates them, as well as the Eres. She was an Elder god/elemental force who took on the aspect of Imass. It's mentioned in a discussion of how the different Dragons took on aspects - I think it's in tBH, but could be in MT.

(Vaiski to the courtesy phone, please ....)

[Coldsnap]

Ya, Silverfox meets Olar Ethil when she meets the bonecasters of the first Imass army to come to her summons. She asks, what is your soletaken form, and Ethil responds, dragon, twin to Tiam.

[Aptorian]

Is Olar a he or a she and was Olar alive or undead?

[Dark Mac]

Olar is an undead she.

Mael;173953 said:

In MoI Olar Ethil is introduced as the First Imass Bonecaster, so she is about as young as Imass can get, but not as Elder as the Eres. Remember the term Elder god is suggestive. After all Dessembelakis's first empire worshipped the elder gods. Since the Imass came long (very long) before the human first empire, Olar Ethil's assention would in fact classify her as elder with regard to the pantheon.

Dessim's empire worshipped the Elder Gods? Really? Where's that info from?

[sundaymonkey]

Coldsnap;173963 said:

Ya, Silverfox meets Olar Ethil when she meets the bonecasters of the first Imass army to come to her summons. She asks, what is your soletaken form, and Ethil responds, dragon, twin to Tiam.

Twin to Tiam? I'd forgotten that detail. So it's possible that the matriarch of the Draconean species only started hanging around with other boys (of whatever species) after her twin brother was killed and skinned by Ethil?

It would explain why none of the Draconean Ascendants seem too bothered that there's a great, big undead version of them flying around. They're too grateful to Ethil for making Tiam available for kissy-kissy by turning her previous partner into a throw-rug.

[Father Light]

also i'm sure at some point we hear tell of the passage of a giant dragon that is relatively misshapen and clearly undead. maybe deadhouse gates of moi

[Aptorian]

I read that as olar ethil is twin to Tiam in some way, powerwise, ancesestry, EG aspect or what ever... Certainly not that Olar skinneed Tiams twin.

[spiralx]

I think the quote is something like "When I veer I am as an undead twin to Tiam". With no implication other than that her Soletaken form is draconic and comparable to Tiam.

[Aptorian]

Which would fit nicely with the idea that Olar was the first soultaken, just as Tiam is the first Dragon.

[Dark Mac]

Ah, but was Olar really Soletaken before people like K'rul and Draconus? Or do they not count as Soletaken since they can shift into many shapes?

[Wither]

I think Elder God status supercedes any identification as soletaken. The ability to veer into a single animal shape seems to be the mark of a soletaken. The ability to disguise your appearance in a variety of ways (or perhaps more accurately to shape and present an aspect of ones godly self in the mortal realm) seems to be a property that the elder gods share. It seems at least possible that other gods could od the same, but I;m not certain that this has been established.

[Lucifer's Heaven]

Don't we see the huge undead dragon in Deadhouse Gates (I'm currently rereading it, but am not up to there yet)? When Gesler and the Silanda get out of KE and ride the fire the the dragon's wake? When Kulp "tricks" reality and shifts them out to escape KE.

I understood the whole "T'lan Imass soultaken form matching their worn skins" to be more along the lines of it representing their soultaken form, as oppose to actually being why it's their form. They get a soultaken form, and then make that their totem beast and wear it's skin. (though we have no idea how one's soultaken form is chosen)

[Aptorian]

Yeah its the undead dragon that help the uys on the silanda, it's also the same draon that we see at the end sitting in waiting at Pusts temple, guardin the Path of Hands.

[Lucifer's Heaven]

I just reread the Dragon and Silanda part, and it brought an interresting point to mind. Someone stated earlier that Scabbi must have been really powerful, as it was him who destroyed the warren of shadow. Kulp is far from extremely powerful, and yet he creates a rent that almost destroys Meanus. This doesn't mean Scaabi's any less powerul, justthat his being responsible for the destruction of KE, doesn't mean he's particularly powerful.

[Tattooed Hand]

But back to the dragon thing. There are other Andii dragons, like Whiskeyjack's girl friend (Korlat?). So it's not just dragonhood that makes you an ascendent.

Also Ruin and Scabby's downfalls (for lack of a better term) are different because Scabby stabs Ruin in the back and Scabby gets cornered by elder Gods. It doesn't create a parallel situation. We don't know how the sons of mother dark stack up next to elder Gods.

Plus, looking your body is a bit incovienent considering the state of Apsalar's little friends, no?

[Mael]

Dark Mac;173970 said:

Dessim's empire worshipped the Elder Gods? Really? Where's that info from?

In K'ruls musings at the beginning of MoI he thinks on the Nacent (young) first empire lighting Pyres in worship to him etc, then moves on to thinking about the brutal Kallorian empire that rose up shortly after whose people he was going to free.

Olar Ethil was indeed the undead dragon that helped both the Meybe, the Silanda and showed up in the Azath house on her cross warren trip to the Second Gathering. She's a busy lady.

[Dolorous Menhir]

What did Olar Ethil do for the Mhybe?