[pat5150]

Dolorous Menhir;170807 said:

Ta. Nice catch on the "brother's killer" thing there, Bottle. Though if we want to cover all bases, it's possible someone could kill Fear or Trull during RG and then Rhulad faces that brother-killer at the end of the book...

So, someone remembered that Rhulad still has two living brothers...:angel:

Patrick
www.fantasyhotlist.blogspot.com

[Mithfanion]

Pat you fiend.

[Braven Tooth]

Also, it doesn't necessarily mean that "his brother's killer" is the final champion, just that he has to wade through so much chafe before he can finally face him. Doesn't mean there aren't other champions after him. For all we know He could face Karsa in the Quarter Finals


P.S Great review Pat

[Dreydin]

Damn it all why does May seem so very far away now? But none the less a very good non-spoiler review. You did leave quite a few hints on there, enough hints it seems to fuel the thread for the next month and a bit till RG comes out.

PS I still hate you for reading RG before us all and nothing will change that

[S Ruin]

For any of you that live in London, be sure to check out Forbidden Planet near covent garden. They always get the book about at least a week before the release date so we are looking at end of april. Still far but a bit better.

I for one am greatful for the review pat.

[Folken]

Icarium doesn't die in this novel as far as I know.

And I hope Karsa does die:p It'll probably be the happiest moment for me in this entire series but he probably wont die...SE loves him too much. *sigh*

[spiralx]

S Ruin;170872 said:

For any of you that live in London, be sure to check out Forbidden Planet near covent garden. They always get the book about at least a week before the release date so we are looking at end of april. Still far but a bit better.

I for one am greatful for the review pat.

Good point, thanks! Although saying that I've picked up a couple of books in the larger bookshops along Charing Cross Road about that much in advance of their official release - the last RJ book being one of them, got it a week before it was released.

[pat5150]

Someone said on another board that word out of Bantam was that RG might ship early. Don't know if that's the case, but you might want to check that out!

Patrick
www.fantasyhotlist.blogspot.com

[BridgeBurner]

pat5150;170828 said:

So, someone remembered that Rhulad still has two living brothers...:angel:

Patrick
www.fantasyhotlist.blogspot.com

Although I think you're putting up a smokescreen here, ;-) technically, in his own POV, Rhulad has one living brother, since Trull has been shorn...

[Dancer+]

And Fear has left edur empire and it would seem to Rhulad that he's been abandoned in that respect too.

So Rhulad in fact probably see's himself as not having any loyal brothers to his cause, although that's difficult to comprehend too. We can't really be sure how Rhulad the person is feeling exactly.

[Abyss]

Karsa did kill Binadas in HoC. Fear fled and Trull was shorn.
Tho' at the time of TB, only their father knows Binadas is dead.

And Rhulad is way coo coo for cocopuffs, so he may not even realize much of what's going on beyond kill kill kill die come back kill kill.

Plus he had his 'adopted' brothers too, even tho he lost a few in MT and TB.

- Abyss, funk soul brotha.

[Ashamanic2]

Battalion;170814 said:

I'd thought that Ruin would end up killing Fear from the start. This would make him ripe for a fight with Rhulad ... meaning that the Emperor would have all ready killed both Icarium and Karsa. Not such a stretch when you remember what Iron Bars said about him after they fought ... "In fives years he'll be good enough to beat Skinner" ... or something like that.

I must be missing something. Why does the Emperor have to win every fight? Couldn't he fight Ruin after losing to Icarium and Karsa, or has the format already ruled that out?

[Apsalar Shadowdancer]

Ashamanic2;170930 said:

I must be missing something. Why does the Emperor have to win every fight? Couldn't he fight Ruin after losing to Icarium and Karsa, or has the format already ruled that out?

I think we are all assuming that in order for him to fight the next champion he has to defeat the previous one. I could see a way around this, but i don't see Karsa or Icarium (in rage mode) not killing whoever they fight. So far the only way we have seen of defeating the Undying Edur is to incapacitate him without killing him.

Perhaps Icarium will go first and do this without going into whirlwind mode, and then refuse to finish him off. Then Karsa (if thats the Rhulad brother killer) steps up to save Icarium (well the Edur really) from the Edur by demanding his turn with Rhulad.

Or something similar to that, i didn't really work out all the details in that "prediction".

[Brys Beddict]

Well this has knocked me back a step! Quite the review Pat. I must say I want this book. Now preferably. :folken:

[Ashamanic2]

Ah, that makes sense, though I am not sure how to reply without including spoilers.
Having just finished a re-read of MT, there was nothing in that to suggest that after a champion has won, he wouldn't be free to leave. What would the alternative be? I can't see Karsa agreeing to stay around indefinitely, nor could I see him being forced to stay.
I would have thought he fights a champion (say Iccarum) and loses. The champion can then go if he wishes, or stay (if the Edur can find an incentive) and fight again.

[Dolorous Menhir]

These are battles to take or keep the Throne of an Empire. There's not going to be a referee waiting for one side to throw in the towel and declare a clean fight. The pair will keep fighting until one of the two is dead, they're not going to stick their hand up in the midst of it and admit defeat for two main reasons.

1 - Rhulad just wouldn't do that. The man is insane, immortal and has an Empire to lose. And a death wish on top, most likely. He's not going to be giving up, ever.

2 - Any of his opponents are fighting an Edur, in Edur territory, surrounded by Tiste Edur. These are not the kind of people who will slap a guy on the back and say, "Ok, you lost a fair fight, thanks for trying. See you later." These fights will be to the death, they will not be over until one of the two is dead.

[Ashamanic2]

Well yes, but equally, if the Edur say "Well done, you killed him, but he's going to come back to life, you'll have to keep on fighting and killing him till you lose", the champions aren't going to nod meekly and agree. Karsa would kill anyone who tried that.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Ashamanic2;170981 said:

Well yes, but equally, if the Edur say "Well done, you killed him, but he's going to come back to life, you'll have to keep on fighting and killing him till you lose", the champions aren't going to nod meekly and agree. Karsa would kill anyone who tried that.

Rhulad is still Emperor, so he has never lost a challenge.

But it is almost certain that some of the champions have managed to kill him. So they must have hung around after the death, in order for resurrected-Rhulad to kill them in the end.

I'm not really sure how Karsa would react to a vanquished foe coming back to life. It would probably depend on how much fun he had killing him the first time.

[Blacksox]

pat5150;170880 said:

Someone said on another board that word out of Bantam was that RG might ship early. Don't know if that's the case, but you might want to check that out!

Patrick
www.fantasyhotlist.blogspot.com

I am hearing about a possible April 23rd ship date.

I think we should start a spoilers thread for information like that just deleted. I for one like the tidbits, they just wet my appetite more.

[Dancer+]

Wouldn't Rhulad fight the champion until he was able to beat him, because the sword learns to fight and react to different styles and abilities but its naive to assume (unless stated) that the sword can pick up everything in one fight. So perhaps it basically mimics (and learns to counter-attack) all of the opponents skill, then when it can beat them in the duel it will do so and leave them dead.

Personally I think Karsa would try and work out a way to kill him indefinitely, or go out in flames. The chances of him fleeing are slim, even with his character development in terms of his wisdom.