[Dolorous Menhir]

I don't really know, but it wasn't the Nascent they left him in. The statues were there, yes, but it was that strange Jaghut-former-realm-of-death place that the statues also appear in.

[Gem Windcaster]

hmmm, yes "shadows casting shadows"...

Could it have something to do with the upper- and underworld
that Cotillion and Edgewalker were talking about?

[Obdigore]

So Gem, are you perhaps saying it is the Jaghut realm of... anti-death (or life)? On the underside of the Jaghut realm of death?

I assume that he is getting into mischief... My worry is that, as they ascend into ascention, will the 'bridgeburners' (the whole unit, ever) become alive again, or perhaps just undead? (Think T'lan Imabridgeburner)

Could that possibly, become the 'host' in the 'house of war', or possibly Paran's private army as master of the deck to enforce his ruling? At least, I think there is such a card, when Fid is showing his new deck 1 card at a time, isnt there a card like that? I do not remember... I need my book back!

[Gem Windcaster]

I'm not sure what I am saying...it is all very confusing.

I have a feeling the Bridgeburners won't be undead though - but we'll see.
As for being Paran's personal army - I'd say they will be more like
the Azath's army. Or something like it. But ascendany probably means they'll
be able to choose the cause for which they fight. The living Bridgeburners
have alot to say about that cause though, it seems.

[Aptorian]

Gem Windcaster;165954 said:

I'm not sure what I am saying...it is all very confusing.

I have a feeling the Bridgeburners won't be undead though - but we'll see.
As for being Paran's personal army - I'd say they will be more like
the Azath's army. Or something like it. But ascendany probably means they'll
be able to choose the cause for which they fight. The living Bridgeburners
have alot to say about that cause though, it seems.

The Azath army? Parans army?

Like hedge mentioned, ALL the dead BBs ascended, including the not so nice ones. The BBs were a hardcore elite military unit once and not all of them was as pleasant as Fiddler og Hedge. A lot of them were most likely a bunch of thieves, murderers and rapists. As I remember they've been given some kind of responsibilty as guardians between death and life... They're not working for anyone specific.

[blewin]

hang on.... didn't Tavore get a card on the army of the dead in Fiddler's game? or was it someone else? would that signify something as to the future direction of the dead BB crew?

[Lonehunter]

The Bridgeburners card is an unaligned, when Paran is talking to Hedge about a future role, he mentions an underlying natural force only represented by there being a soldier in each house.

[Hark but Soft]

I still think Hedge claimed that Realm for the Bridgeburners, and I think that the realm is aspected to Time.

[Aptorian]

Hark but Soft;167961 said:

I still think Hedge claimed that Realm for the Bridgeburners, and I think that the realm is aspected to Time.

It's an interesting theory since they also seem to be stuck in Raraku's dead seas.

When you say time are you speculating on Boatfinders story about Iskaral Jarak being lost in the frozen time standing on a burning bridge?

[Dolorous Menhir]

Aptorian;167987 said:

When you say time are you speculating on Boatfinders story about Iskaral Jarak being lost in the frozen time standing on a burning bridge?

I don't think there is anything deep to read into that phrase. If we remember the Anibar's belief system,

"in the frozen time" means "in the past"

and

"burning bridge" means he's a Bridgeburner.

So that sentence just says Iskar Jarak was a Bridgeburner who visited in the past. I don't think it sheds any light on Hedge's actions in that warren.

[Aptorian]

Dolorous Menhir;168035 said:

I don't think there is anything deep to read into that phrase. If we remember the Anibar's belief system,

"in the frozen time" means "in the past"

and

"burning bridge" means he's a Bridgeburner.

So that sentence just says Iskar Jarak was a Bridgeburner who visited in the past. I don't think it sheds any light on Hedge's actions in that warren.

Exactly what I think, that's why I'm wondering why he believes that the BBs should suddenly have become aspected to time.

[Dark Mac]

Aptorian;167987 said:

It's an interesting theory since they also seem to be stuck in Raraku's dead seas.

Indeed, but won't Raraku lose its newfound warren once Kurald Emurlahn is reunited under its new ruler?

[Abyss]

Someone help me out here...Didn't Hedge also make the point that the dead army from Raraku, including the Bridgeburners, was on the march to somewhere?

As for Hedge, his decision to hang around in the Jaghut death bridge warren was interesting, and also suspicious, because DeadHedge (Deadge?) seemed a lot more, shall we say, organized, than he was when he was alive.

- Abyss, never trusts a dead guy.

[Aptorian]

I think they have different objectives, but they probably got some new role to play after Paran summoned them.

About Raraku and the KE fragment. I think there was Dryjnas fragment and then there is something older than KE there. 7C is the oldest continent on Wu, I thought the comming of the sea and blooming of the Odhan was caused from the deserts own memories and some sort of returning tides of life and death locked in some kind of seasons of the continents past.

[Hark but Soft]

Aptorian;167987 said:

It's an interesting theory since they also seem to be stuck in Raraku's dead seas.

When you say time are you speculating on Boatfinders story about Iskaral Jarak being lost in the frozen time standing on a burning bridge?

Sorry, just saw this.

I don't have the book with me. But I only base my time aspect thing in part on the Boatfinders thing (the twisting of Whiskeyjack's name left me feeling that he encountered them much further in the past than seems to be the consensus here). I also base it on the description of the realm which was given in the book, as somehow being bigger and older than death.. or being eternal or something like that. I got the impression that the realm itself was time.

ok.. I got a copy of the book here after all. Here are some quotes:

Paran about the bridge to nowhere: "This is older than the Holds, isn't it?"

Ganath about the bridge to nowhere:
"This place belongs to the Jaghut -- to our own myths. This is our vision of the underworld"
[...]
"This place lies beneath the ground beneath Hood's feet."
[...]
"As with all things, layer settles upon layer, and the deepest, darkest ones become forgotten -- yet they have shaped all that lies above."

Now Omtose Phellack and Hood's realm are both presumable layers atop this realm. Both are Jaghut realms (assuming Hood is a Jaghut). Both are time aspected (ice stops time, death either stops time or stretches it infinitely, depending how you look at it). So to me it makes sense that the root force of Jaghut realms is time itself.

Add to that the coincidence that Boatfinder's people call the past the frozen time, and that you have to take a bridge to the unfound time, and you have several ingredients that come together pretty convincingly that this whole thing is a metaphore for time itself.

Tie in the *bridge*burner thing, and you have a neat way of concluding that ultimately, the Bridgeburners have conquered time.

Paran to Hedge: "I suspect that what calls to you is something far more ephemeral, more primal. A force of nature, as if some long lost law was being reasserted, and you're the ones who will deliver it. Eventually."

Paran to Ganath: "This isn't a Hold. [...] It has no ruler, or master." [...] "This realm is buried, forgotten."

Hedge tricks Paran into creating a card for the Bridgeburners, and then makes himself comfortable exploring the (unfound?) realm on the other side of the bridge to nowhere. The realm has no rulers.. it's a primal force that somehow is an ancestor to death and Jaghut time-aspected sorcery.

Was Icarium linked with the House of War at all?

[Abyss]

Interesting post by HbS, esp re the whole time-ice-bridge-bridgeburner theory.

Paran summoned the BBs to get a guide, but he ended up with the whole Raraku undead army, briefly.

I don't think Hedge tricked him so much as made a bargain in exchange for his help. Interesting tho that while Hedge bargained for the whole army, he then grabbed an opportunity to leave them.

As for time, i suspect that we could say that the dead have coquered time so to speak, just by virtue of being dead.

No Icarium link to HoW i can recall. I the past he was linked to an unaligned card i the Deck, but i can't recall him ever being linked to a House. Mappo's newly affiliated with HHLife tho, post TB.

- Abyss, and now it's time for the weekend

[Hark but Soft]

I didn't mean that he tricked Paran into creating the card, just that he get Paran to agree to creating it before he had a chance to consider all the ramifications (ie: that this would open the door to the Bridgeburners claiming a realm of their own).

[Abyss]

Are you suggesting that the dead BBs may seize the Jaghut death warren? Bcs otherwise i'm not following you...

- Abyss, abclear.

[Aptorian]

That theory is pretty interesting HbS. If it even contains a shread of truth my fondness for SE just increased tenfold.

You should post it in the Cray Theories before someone else naps it