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Not saying that she wasn't powerful beforehand - but a lot of primitive magic relies on sympathetic principles i.e. creating representations of things to affect them. And Onrack's image and strong emotions may have tapped into this sort of early Eres-esque spirit magic to acheive Kilava's immortality.
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#44
Abyss 
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Posted 07 March 2007 - 06:30 PM
Kallor;165778 said:
leave the kid alone ... he takes after my own choices to ignore paragraphs ...
ok, now i'll go back to Toll the Hounds ...
ok, now i'll go back to Toll the Hounds ...
Lancelot;165785 said:
@Abyss - I'd hate to step on yours claws dude.... could you do the honours!!
oh, c'mon... this IS a community isn't it...?
ALL TOGETHER NOW!
BRAINZZZZZ!!!!!!
- Abyss, bcs threats read better in day-glo pink...
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#45
Obdigore
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Posted 07 March 2007 - 07:05 PM
Are you types forgetting that it was a 'holy' imass cave?
As is mentioned, she could not participate in the ritual because she was already immortalised on the cave wall. Perhaps that, along with her destroying her entire clan, lead the way to some kind of quasi-ascendance?
Or, perhaps, if we remember that the clans are named after the leader (always a bonecaster), maybe some bonecasters do live a very very very long time? I would certainly hate to change my clan name every 20 years when the leader dies...
Or, perhaps, soletaken and d'ivers, because they are what they are (and are assumed to have found a measure of power) do live a long time, or until they are ended (by violence).
As is mentioned, she could not participate in the ritual because she was already immortalised on the cave wall. Perhaps that, along with her destroying her entire clan, lead the way to some kind of quasi-ascendance?
Or, perhaps, if we remember that the clans are named after the leader (always a bonecaster), maybe some bonecasters do live a very very very long time? I would certainly hate to change my clan name every 20 years when the leader dies...
Or, perhaps, soletaken and d'ivers, because they are what they are (and are assumed to have found a measure of power) do live a long time, or until they are ended (by violence).
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Posted 07 March 2007 - 07:57 PM
Dudes...now I'm getting hungry... :morgoth:
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-Aaron
#48
Abyss
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Posted 07 March 2007 - 09:40 PM
Oh, and iirc, there was every possibility she was pregnant by Onrack when she did her whole 'kill my family and deny the ritual' thing.
- Abyss, now THAT's pro-choice.
- Abyss, now THAT's pro-choice.
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#49
Clip
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Posted 07 March 2007 - 09:51 PM
Mael;165031 said:
No. Kellanved conquered Seven Cities with the T'lan Imass. He conquered Quon Tali using his brains.
Actually Kellanved sat his shifty behind on the First Throne when still only in control of Malaz Island.
Edit: once again I see the glorious human ability to argue about things that you agree on. It's known that Kilava is immortal because of Onrack's painting, and it was also what drove her to kill her clan. I cant remamber why though...
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#50
Gem Windcaster
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Posted 07 March 2007 - 10:48 PM
What makes anyone go off killing their entire clan?
Becuse they're crazy, that's why :heyhey:
But seriously, if what you say is true, Kilava didn't like the ritual, that's why she killed them.
Or something like it. --- Probably had something to do with
her change of perspective after being painted.
Although, I've never made the connection between painting->immortal.
I'd rather have thought she was immortal because she was a bonecaster.
But maybe I'm way off on that one...
Becuse they're crazy, that's why :heyhey:
But seriously, if what you say is true, Kilava didn't like the ritual, that's why she killed them.
Or something like it. --- Probably had something to do with
her change of perspective after being painted.
Although, I've never made the connection between painting->immortal.
I'd rather have thought she was immortal because she was a bonecaster.
But maybe I'm way off on that one...
_ In the dark I play the night, like a tune vividly fright_
So light it blows, at lark it goes _
invisible indifferent sight_
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#51
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 07 March 2007 - 10:52 PM
clip;165942 said:
Actually Kellanved sat his shifty behind on the First Throne when still only in control of Malaz Island.
Really? I don't know for sure, but I imagine he didn't become Emperor of the Imass until he'd already conquered Quon Tali. It's an interesting question though. I think his initial expansion (Quon) was achieved without T'lan Imass aid.
#53
Thelomen Toblerone
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Posted 07 March 2007 - 11:23 PM
Kallor;165778 said:
ok, now i'll go back to Toll the Hounds ...
One day Im going to hunt you down, steal your brainz and Malaz advance books, and possibly kille you, you saucy little tease you.
#54
Mael
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Posted 08 March 2007 - 01:20 AM
Quote
Edit: once again I see the glorious human ability to argue about things that you agree on. It's known that Kilava is immortal because of Onrack's painting, and it was also what drove her to kill her clan. I cant remamber why though...
Her new found immortality combined with her culture of community (Everyone follows the majority opinion - as described by Lanas Togg to lady envy) is what drove her to it. By destroying her Tarad Imass she was effectively clanless and was able to defy the summons. Her reason for this was very simple...she was already immortal and thus did not need the ritual of Tellan to accomplish this.
Onos T'oolan, despite being clanless, still elected to join the Ritual even though he argued against it. Maybe because he was proclaimed first sword and was obligated, maybe because he wanted to stay with and help his people, maybe because he would have been killed if he didn't...we dont know.
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Posted 08 March 2007 - 06:29 AM
Mael;165991 said:
Her reason for this was very simple...she was already immortal and thus did not need the ritual of Tellan to accomplish this.
Not so simple. My reading is that Kilava's rejection of the Ritual precedes her immortalization. To defy the ritual, she needed to break the blood ties that bound her to her clan. That she became immortal is orthogonal to the reason she defied the ritual. (Tool shared her misgivings, but chose to accept the ritual.)
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Posted 08 March 2007 - 02:17 PM
Thelomen Toblerone;165973 said:
One day Im going to hunt you down, steal your brainz and Malaz advance books, and possibly kille you, you saucy little tease you. 
I think the words of the original Kallor answer that best: "You're welcome to try." (spoken through wide, humorless grin)
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#57
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Posted 09 March 2007 - 11:55 AM
buddhacat;166116 said:
Not so simple. My reading is that Kilava's rejection of the Ritual precedes her immortalization. To defy the ritual, she needed to break the blood ties that bound her to her clan. That she became immortal is orthogonal to the reason she defied the ritual. (Tool shared her misgivings, but chose to accept the ritual.)
I always just thought she was immortal because she was a soletaken, who appear to have very long lives in any case. Nothing to do with the painting.
#58
Thelomen Toblerone
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Posted 09 March 2007 - 05:16 PM
Are all soletaken semi-ascendant?
They dont appear to die of old age or suffer from illness, and they're immensely powerful.
Sounds like ascendant to me.
They dont appear to die of old age or suffer from illness, and they're immensely powerful.
Sounds like ascendant to me.
#59
Clip
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Posted 09 March 2007 - 07:04 PM
No, I dont think so, why did all those soletaken and D'ivers go after the "Path of The Hands" is they already were ascendants? I think they're just creatures with very long life, sort of like the Jaghut etc.
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#60
Monoch Ochem
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Posted 09 March 2007 - 07:23 PM
Didn't Kilava kill her entire clan the very night that the painting was done or something? I seem to recall having an impression that she wasn't even aware of the painting at the time. Think it was in HoC where they elaborated on this from the Whirlwind goddess' recollections and thoughts towards the end....when she was recounting Onrack's betrayal.
Anyway, I don't think she necessarily knew that she was immortal from the painting, thereby deciding she didn't need Tellann for immortality.
And just because she's soletaken doesn't mean she's an ascendant or immortal. I thought the point/lure of the path of hands was to gain ascendancy. The soletaken wouldn't have fallen for it if they wer already ascendant. Why else would they speak of Kilava being immortalised by this painting? Because she was a mortal bonecaster before.
Anyway, I don't think she necessarily knew that she was immortal from the painting, thereby deciding she didn't need Tellann for immortality.
And just because she's soletaken doesn't mean she's an ascendant or immortal. I thought the point/lure of the path of hands was to gain ascendancy. The soletaken wouldn't have fallen for it if they wer already ascendant. Why else would they speak of Kilava being immortalised by this painting? Because she was a mortal bonecaster before.
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