[Tsaritsa]

I am a Russian Orthodox ( well the Empress is in anycase ) ...can i interest you in a Icon anyone?



To all the Athiests out there...why that is just Blasphemy!! hehe

[Tiste Simeon]

Cold Iron said:

Have you tried studying it?

It's fairly depressing... "Nothing is there. We are all alone. There are no answers. Anyone who says different is a loser." Pretty much sums up atheism for me.

[Darkwatch]

Now now Tiste, don't descend into childish insults and crass generalisations, Jesus doesn't approve of that.

Besides how many times has DM summed up religion in such fashions that's irratated you for its over simplified and unrealistic skewed view?

[Tiste Simeon]

I know, I know... You are completely right, and I apologise. I've been away too long.

[Nequam]

Cold Iron;264073 said:

Have you tried studying it?

Atheism? There is nothing to study...:confused:

Or was that supposed some kind of sarcasm or something?

[Gothos]

that's a rather crude viewpoint. if you'd study atheism as a type of faith, or lack of it, you'd have to include any scientific theory that touches the problems religions try to answer, and gives it's own answer to them, answer that excludes the existance of any god.

[Nequam]

Well your not studying Atheism. You'd be studying the sceince of whatever problems that they are touching. Atheism is just not beleiving in the existance of god. You can't study something that is not a collective thing.

[Gothos]

it leads to a certain set of values of their own.
in example, on the nature of the Universe, the "creation" and meaning of life, what is death, what(if anything) happens after death, is there an immortal spirit, to just name the most obvious ones... it's a category of it's own.

[RodeoRanch]

Interesting that atheism and agnosticism is leading are leading the pack here.

[Tiste Simeon]

Have to agree with Nequam - to study the beliefs of Atheism, surely that marks it down as a religion by itself? I remember reading somewhere about someone trying to give Atheism a symbol, in the same way that the Cross or the Icthus is the symbol for Christianity... I thought that would be defeating the object!

But I do see what Gothos is saying - I guess there is a difference in being an out and out atheist to being someone who doesn't care or is just ignorant...

[Darkwatch]

Well you could easily look on atheism as a philosophical point of view with all it's principle analysed as such, it wouldn't be religion just a school of thought.
But regardless it is an Ideology like religion, the only difference being that religion is an ideology based on the supernatural (something beyond) where as Atheism would be one based on the percieved.

[D Man]

Tiste Simeon;268634 said:

It's fairly depressing... "Nothing is there. We are all alone. There are no answers. Anyone who says different is a loser." Pretty much sums up atheism for me.

None of that is true. Not one syllable.

Its just that there are no gods/deities.

There is an entire universe there and a depth to reality that no mythology can touch.

We are all alone is a contradiction. Who is this 'we' then? The people around you dont vanish or stop enriching your life if you dont believe in gods

There are lots of answers. They just arent set in stone: better answers are allowed for as our knowledge and understanding of the universe and ourselves grows.

Anyone who says different is not a loser. Even you :angel:

[caladanbrood]

Nequam;270729 said:

Well your not studying Atheism. You'd be studying the sceince of whatever problems that they are touching. Atheism is just not beleiving in the existance of god. You can't study something that is not a collective thing.

I had thought that Atheism was a belief in the fact there was no god. A lack of belief either way is Agnostisism, isn't it?

[Slum]

Agnosticism, to me, is simply the belief that there is a higher power at work in the universe. This belief is not influenced by, or affiliated with, a religion.

[Nequam]

caladanbrood;270888 said:

I had thought that Atheism was a belief in the fact there was no god. A lack of belief either way is Agnostisism, isn't it?

Well I'm not really sure about (or even exactly what) agnostisism. But yeah, that's just what I said. Atheism is not believing in the existance of any form a god/deitie. That is all I really used to classify atheism, and there is nothing to study about atheism except that simple fact. So I already know everything there s to know about atheism. It has nothing to do with science/philosophy/etc. in my mind. Once you go to those things it because something else, something I would not call atheism.

...I know it isn't exactly the subject here but I get the feeling that people believe just because I am religous means that I can't be scientific. (not that I'm saying you people here on this very forum, but people in general.

[caladanbrood]

Nequam;270958 said:

...I know it isn't exactly the subject here but I get the feeling that people believe just because I am religous means that I can't be scientific. (not that I'm saying you people here on this very forum, but people in general.

Yes, I find that to be a rather widely held, utterly misguided, view.

What I was trying to say - maybe it's a question of wording, and we do mean the same thing - is that Atheism is as much a belief as Theism, but it's an active belief that there isn't a god. Simple lack of belief that there is a god is Agnostisism, I think. Not entirely sure of the line between the two, though.

[Nequam]

EDIT: nevermind to anyon who has already read that post. I remembered.

What I thought agnostic people were is this:
They beleive ina 'higher power' if you wil, but not in any specific religion.
But I'm not so sure. Just as brood I guess.

[Slum]

Being religious doesn't preclude being scientific, but I think a lot people in the scientific community get upset when they see someone ignoring proven scientific fact in favor of unsubstantiated/improbable, religion-based explanations.

Dictionary definition of Agnostic:
A person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god.

[Nequam]

I agree. I see a lot of those particular religous people as ignorant, or at least narrow-minded. Almost everything I can think of in science can agree with my religion. Yes, even evolution.

Oh! So an agnostic is someone who thinks there is no way of proving either side. So like, they aren't atheist or religous..right?

[ch'arlz]

Nequam;270988 said:

Oh! So an agnostic is someone who thinks there is no way of proving either side. So like, they aren't atheist or religous..right?

they're agnostic -- unsure of the truth of either side, but seeking a reason to believe. Proof isn't really a consideration in matters of faith.