[T77]

I hear the show is better than the comic.

[Abyss]

I believe it... skip the Ennisisms and there is a interesting core concept here.


When it comes to comic properties that aren't massively popular well known characters like Spidey, i like to know where the screen version is coming from. Makes for a more interesting watch.

See also UMBRELLA ACADEMY, DEADLY CLASS, OUTCAST, 30 DAYS OF NIGHT to name a few.

[Salt-Man Z]

So uh, I just read the spoiler for "House of X" #2, and um

Spoiler

apparently Moira McTaggart is Harry August

[Abyss]

Abyss, on 06 August 2019 - 03:27 PM, said:

Positive buzz for the show, prompted me to get into the THE BOYS comic omnibus collection. About halfway through book one.

...it's been a while since i spent any time on Garth Ennis, and this is all very Ennis, and moreso than say, PREACHER.

Now and then i reach a point of disgust/annoyance to a degree that i might consider dropping the read, and then he subverts expectation at least a little. It's still very much Ennis doing his (not always good) thing, but to his credit he manages to do what he does and still offer more than what initially appears to be superficial homophobic/misogynistic idiocy. I think he is too subtle for (the majority of) readers who read Ennis for headshots and blood splatters and blowjob jokes, but it's there and it's holding my attention.

T77, on 07 August 2019 - 12:31 PM, said:

I hear the show is better than the comic.

Abyss, on 07 August 2019 - 03:15 PM, said:

I believe it... skip the Ennisisms and there is a interesting core concept here.
...

Finished THE BOYS readthru.

I don't think i've had such a mixed reaction to a comics run in ages. At points, this is peak Ennis and i mean that in a bad way... the jokes aren't just crass, they're offensive, and they're included not because they add anything to the story, but because someone thinks it's funny to draw an amputee Stan Lee doing Wonder Woman doggy style. It's not funny. Then a few floppies later (pun intended) they throw in an Invisible Woman joke that is subtle, offensive, and funny as fuck... so what i get from the Ennismisms is obviously subjective, but the range of response, from 'that is damn funny' to 'i am disgusted' is pretty wide.

Leave that aside tho', and there is a clever story about superheroes and corporate interests and revenge and friendship there. Ennis worked a LOT of character development in for a small number of characters, and then included a whole bunch of other characters who were just a treat to read. The titular boys specifically... having marathoned the comics series, i'm actually impressed with the way he developed each of them. Sure Wee Hughie is the story, but MM, Frenchman and The Female all had their own arcs. Butcher of course is a key figure in the story. And then there's Terror...

And the plotlines of others... Annie, Maeve, Homelander, the Vought execs... it all comes together well.

The art varies from okay to stunning, but never less. Even the fill-ins are decent.

Worth a read if you can take Ennis as Ennis. This is a solid work of graphic fiction.
If PREACHER, KEV or his AUTHORITY run weren't your thing, i'd say pass.


Haven't watched the tv show yet, but looking fwd to it now.




NOW SPOILERS

SPOILERS

MASSIVE SPURTING

OFFENSIVE

ANIMAL FUCKING SPOILERS

OF GREAT SPOILERITUDE

Spoiler

Leave it to Garth Ennis to violate all norms and standards of entertainment in any media, and kill the dog.
YOU DO NOT FUCKING KILL THE DOG.
Even if it is a rapist dog. ... fucking Ennis.....

I enjoyed Hughie's plotline, from hapless incompetent wholly out of his depth to more or less effective player.. but never actually effective fighter, even with super-powers.

Butcher's face/heel turn is fairly obvious early on, but i enjoyed how Ennis kept layering in more and more elements to it, til by the end Butcher is both a hero, Big Bad, AND a victim. That's good writing.

The Homelander Black-Noir 'twist'... saw it coming (pun intended), the obvious hint when they pranked Queen Maeve at the brothel (fucking Ennis) was obvious, but i did not expect quite how it played out or how much it changed what i thought i knew. And it's hard not to love a comics plot that has Superman on a team not knowing his teammate is his own clone created to assassinate him.

Speaking of Queen Maeve her evolving relationship with Annie was both clever and subtle. The end was satisfying.

Credit where due, it takes massive balls of steel to write superheroes into 9/11 and have them make a complete utter total mess of the situation.

The Frenchman and The Female were great supporting characters, i adored their relationship and everything they did in this series. I kind of wanted them to either live happily ever after or go out in a massive battle. What we got was.. appropriate. ....fucking Ennis....

Having a kid's pet wolverine kill the President of the US... is not nearly as disturbing as what happened to the idiot VP.... "is that a fuck hole?".... ew.

[Abyss]

ALIEN VERSUS PREDATOR: THREE WORLD WAR.

Fucking awesome. Pulls a bunch of pieces from various ALIEN and PREDATOR books, puts them together nicely, and then throws it all into a particularly stabby meatgrider. Great fun. A renegade clan of Predator warlords with weaponized pet bugs start wiping out human colonies, so the Colonial Marines recruit the only human to have lived with the Predators, Machiko Noguchi from the original original AvP LS, to negotiate a truce with 'normal' Preds, then the two races go after the renegades. Hilarity and massacres ensue.This as a movie would have made decazillions of dollars.

[T77]

Abyss, on 18 October 2019 - 02:59 PM, said:

ALIEN VERSUS PREDATOR: THREE WORLD WAR.

Fucking awesome. Pulls a bunch of pieces from various ALIEN and PREDATOR books, puts them together nicely, and then throws it all into a particularly stabby meatgrider. Great fun. A renegade clan of Predator warlords with weaponized pet bugs start wiping out human colonies, so the Colonial Marines recruit the only human to have lived with the Predators, Machiko Noguchi from the original original AvP LS, to negotiate a truce with 'normal' Preds, then the two races go after the renegades. Hilarity and massacres ensue.This as a movie would have made decazillions of dollars.

Thanks for the reco Abyss. It's on Hoopla and now it's on my list.

[T77]

FYI, Black Science vol 9 drops today and is on Hoopla. Also, Wild Storm vol 4 is out today, but not on Hoopla yet.

[Abyss]

HOUSE OF X / POWERS OF X.

Hickman... fuuuuUUUUUuuuuuuck.

At root (Krakoa pun intended) some of this is not that original... Morrison did 'unite all mutants', and the X-Men have lived on an Island at least twice before (Island X and Genosha... three times if we count Magneto's R'yleh) where i give him credit tho is the underlying timeline/alt-reality plot.... which has the potential to match or exceed both his F4 uber-plot and Infinity... and the resurrection element that takes the 'no mutant ever really dies' trope and whole hog embraces it even as they bring back virtually every single dead mutant ever... again. Also, for notionally bringing 'all' the mutant villains into the fold. Yah, no one really believes 'Poccy or Sinister aren't going to betray everyone sooner or later, ...also, Gorgon.. seriously, they'll throw Sabertooth in a hole but trust Gorgon?.... and Vulcan killled Corsair and Lilandra FFS... but they're so earnest about it that it works.

May be following as the ongoing floppies make their way onto the MU app, tho i may wait a while til there's a solid batch on there to read.

[Salt-Man Z]

Abyss, on 14 November 2019 - 06:47 PM, said:

some of this is not that original... Morrison did 'unite all mutants', and the X-Men have lived on an Island at least twice before (Island X and Genosha... three times if we count Magneto's R'yleh)

Heck, they already lived on fricking Krakoa: he was the school grounds for Wolverine's Jean Grey school.

[polishgenius]

I read the fourth volume of the Wildstorm reboot.

That.


Was.


Awesome.

[Abyss]

Salt-Man Z, on 14 November 2019 - 10:36 PM, said:

Abyss, on 14 November 2019 - 06:47 PM, said:

some of this is not that original... Morrison did 'unite all mutants', and the X-Men have lived on an Island at least twice before (Island X and Genosha... three times if we count Magneto's R'yleh)

Heck, they already lived on fricking Krakoa: he was the school grounds for Wolverine's Jean Grey school.

He was in the grounds, not the entirety of them, but yah, that too.

polishgenius, on 15 November 2019 - 05:31 PM, said:

I read the fourth volume of the Wildstorm reboot.

That.


Was.


Awesome.

Yes.

It.


Was.

[T77]

Thirded, The Wild Storm was great.

[polishgenius]

Is that it for this particular series? I know they're planning to expand into some sort of bigger universe but there doesn't seem to be much movement on that.


Although also one mild criticism is that although the art has thus far been outstanding, other artists have done Midnighter and Apollo's powers better. Although Apollo did have a couple of awesome panels/pages.

[Abyss]

polishgenius, on 16 November 2019 - 02:17 PM, said:

Is that it for this particular series? I know they're planning to expand into some sort of bigger universe but there doesn't seem to be much movement on that.


Although also one mild criticism is that although the art has thus far been outstanding, other artists have done Midnighter and Apollo's powers better. Although Apollo did have a couple of awesome panels/pages.

For me peak Apollo will always be during Ellis' original 12 issue, notably the second story vs Alt-England where he

Spoiler

nearly gets killed because the commandos catch him with his solar charge low, then later he hurls himself out of the Carrier to recharge as he plummets to Earth, then takes on an entire invasion fleet.

Also notable was Millar's run where Apollo was raped by 'Captain America' and proceeded to ceaselessly fly around the world supercharging himself until he had the opportunity to utterly fry the 'Avengers' in retaliation.

...but it's not surprising that Ellis of anyone worked magic with these characters for the most part. I didn't care much for the Deathblow spin-off and some of the characters' re-imaginings, notably Stormwatch, were less than interersting, but his new takes on The Authority (his new Doctor and Jenny were awesome... the Engineer was ok even if i didn't care for the redesign, Jack, Apollo and Midnighter were basically their old selves... i kind of miss Swift tho, she was always this less godlike superhero than the rest who still manages to operate at that level based on sheer 'my superpower is flying so fast i will fuck you up before you know i'm there' badassitude)... and the WildCATS were fun even without Zealot.

Iirc the schedules have bounced around but DC is planning new Authority and WIldCATS books for next year. Ellis is writing WIldCATS, allegedly already has three issues in the can and ready to go.


Finishing up THE WILD STORM prompted me to dig out the original STORMWATCH series. Wow, the 90s were a dark time for comics. Some of the art is truly dire 'Lifeleld'esque', the plots are clunky basic, and dialogue painful at times. Not sure how far i'll make it before i just skip ahead to Ellis' run.

[polishgenius]

I absolutely hate Millar's run on Authority overall, it's so bad taste and nasty, but there were some good moments. Midnighter got some good moments there too.


I think my favourite visual depiction of Apollo is Dustin Nguyen's on The Authority Revolution. Not sure he has any spectacular feats or moments in it, though he's fine, it just looks really cool when he's doing his thing.

Abnett and Lanning's Authority: World's End (also a very fun comic) also has a fun depiction of him both visually and in how he's treated where

Spoiler

because there is a permanent nuclear/volcanic winter he cannot live below the cloud layer and has to spend his entire time in the upper atmosphere, swooping down only when the remains of the Authority signal that things are particularly dire.

I actually really like the Engineer redesign, both visually and as a character- she was way overpowered and had no real depth the first time, in this one she's got the central arc.


You ever read Steve Orlando's in-main-DC-continuity-technically Midnighter, and later Midnighter and Apollo, comics?

[Abyss]

polishgenius, on 18 November 2019 - 07:07 PM, said:

I absolutely hate Millar's run on Authority overall, it's so bad taste and nasty, but there were some good moments. Midnighter got some good moments there too.

Agree to a point. I sort of appreciated Millar's sheer inversion of what Ellis did, but at times it felt like he went too far just for shock value. Except with Midnighter.. Millar clearly 'got' and loved Midnighter.

Quote

I think my favourite visual depiction of Apollo is Dustin Nguyen's on The Authority Revolution. Not sure he has any spectacular feats or moments in it, though he's fine, it just looks really cool when he's doing his thing.

Abnett and Lanning's Authority: World's End (also a very fun comic) also has a fun depiction of him both visually and in how he's treated where

Spoiler

because there is a permanent nuclear/volcanic winter he cannot live below the cloud layer and has to spend his entire time in the upper atmosphere, swooping down only when the remains of the Authority signal that things are particularly dire.

Not read either of these yet but probably will.

Quote

I actually really like the Engineer redesign, both visually and as a character- she was way overpowered and had no real depth the first time, in this one she's got the central arc.

I can agree it made her character more interesting, but i sort of liked Ellis' Angie's 'i am utterly new at this, naturally good at it, and constantly being freaked out over how awesome it is'. When she started curing cancers while staring at her toast it became clear later writers didn't know how to handle her.

Quote

You ever read Steve Orlando's in-main-DC-continuity-technically Midnighter, and later Midnighter and Apollo, comics?

A few random issues. I love the characters because of what Ellis wrought in his original 12 issues, but nothing has ever quite come close for me.


I also regret not saving the blurb Ellis wrote for his never-to-be-written Authority/JLA team-up book, which included Superman and Apollo fighting on a large terraforming machine falling through the atmosphere, Batman and Midnighter stalking each other on board the machine, and The Doctor and Green Lantern tripping balls on serious drugs.

[polishgenius]

Abyss, on 18 November 2019 - 07:59 PM, said:

Agree to a point. I sort of appreciated Millar's sheer inversion of what Ellis did, but at times it felt like he went too far just for shock value. Except with Midnighter.. Millar clearly 'got' and loved Midnighter.

It's generally my problem with Millar that he has good ideas then spoils them with just rampant shock value trimmings that tend to take over the plot. Like, both Ellis and Garth, both of whom Millar clearly idolises, can include what on the face of it is similar tones in their work (early Ellis at least, less so later), but both have a feeling of genuine heart that Millar just lacks most times.

But anyway yeah. He did good with Midnighter.

Quote

Not read either of these yet but probably will.

Revolution is particularly worth it, it might even be as good as the initial run (certainly it's close) and follows up on some of the implications of what they do in ways other writers didn't. It's kind of a more weighty version of what Millar was doing.

World's End is Abnett and Lanning doing their best with an apocalyptic wildstorm reboot that nobody wanted or needed. The first volume works particularly well iirc.

Quote

A few random issues. I love the characters because of what Ellis wrought in his original 12 issues, but nothing has ever quite come close for me.

Volume 2 of Midnighter suffers a bit from an unecessary Suicide Squad tie-in and then shit-we're-cancelled-wrap-it-up, but the first volume is genuinely brilliant in both its depiction of him and in the way it digs out a villain that makes particularly good sense for being his nemesis.

Quote

I also regret not saving the blurb Ellis wrote for his never-to-be-written Authority/JLA team-up book, which included Superman and Apollo fighting on a large terraforming machine falling through the atmosphere, Batman and Midnighter stalking each other on board the machine, and The Doctor and Green Lantern tripping balls on serious drugs.

I'd never heard of that but it immediately goes in the folder alongside Nick Cave's Gladiator 2 script as one of the great regrets...

[T77]

Finally finished Hickman's Avengers run after chipping away at it for a while. It was epic. He proves once again why he is much better than most other writers. One thing I really like when he writes superhero stuff is the serious tone he uses, with no corny jokes, or cheesy dialog. I wish others would take notice. My only small quibble is that it probably could have been shorter. Now on to Secret Wars.

[Salt-Man Z]

Anyone else ever read John Allison's Giant Days? They're on sale at Comixology through Thursday. I've read the first two volumes so far (just bought 3-4 earlier today) and they're just an absolute delight. (I may have just a teensy crush on Esther De Groot.)

[Abyss]

polishgenius, on 18 November 2019 - 09:43 PM, said:

Abyss, on 18 November 2019 - 07:59 PM, said:

...I also regret not saving the blurb Ellis wrote for his never-to-be-written Authority/JLA team-up book, which included Superman and Apollo fighting on a large terraforming machine falling through the atmosphere, Batman and Midnighter stalking each other on board the machine, and The Doctor and Green Lantern tripping balls on serious drugs.

I'd never heard of that but it immediately goes in the folder alongside Nick Cave's Gladiator 2 script as one of the great regrets...

FOUND IT!!!!!!! ...on the CBR boards...

Quote

In May of 1999, I had the mad idea of writing a JLA/THE AUTHORITY crossover. At least, I think it was my idea. It may have been Scott Dunbier's idea. Whatever, the idea was to make use of the dead time Bryan Hitch expected to have between finishing THE AUTHORITY and starting JLA (for dead time was expected, at that point). We were well ahead on THE AUTHORITY, and we thought this'd be a bit of a laugh, as well as making a nice bridge for him between one book and the other.

I wrote this rough pitch and everyone rubbed their hands with glee. Wildstorm were nuts for it, and forwarded it to DC for approval, along with a note explaining that both I and Bryan had a certain window in which to get the project done.

And the one editor who needed to sign off on it sat on it until that window passed. Despite repeated communication from Wildstorm urging that a decision be made in the requested timeframe.

A long, long time later, when Bryan's availability and my production window had both gone, Wildstorm got a phone call from DC to ask for a JLA/AUTHORITY crossover. I told them to stick it up their arse. It would have been a fun book to write, and it would've been a nice thing to do for Bryan, who in my opinion was frankly ill-served by DC on JLA, along with Laura. To be honest, it'd still be a fun book, I think. But without Bryan and Paul and Laura, it wouldn't be worth doing.

I'm putting this up to amuse people, and because I can: since I was never paid for the idea, the notions herein remain mine.

From May 1999, then: the JLA/AUTHORITY Pitch.

[[[poster: When reposting it another time, he gave a slightly different, even more specifically accusatory intro:]]]

This almost happened, by the by. I've posted that in past threads, but there are some new folks here, so...

This is the JLA/Authority thing John's talking about. Back when we were finishing THE AUTHORITY, Bryan had some slack in his schedule between the end of the book and his taking on JLA.

So we thought, why not produce a bridging book for him, Paul and Laura (who were following him over)? I came up with the following. Obviously, we had a window to produce it in.

The JLA editor needed to sign off on it. The bastard (who has since been fired) sat on the thing until our window of availability had closed. And he knew it was there--had been informed specifically of it a half-dozen times. And that's why you never saw it. Anyway--from May 1999, the pitch document for JLA/THE AUTHORITY: CRISIS NINE.

It might amuse you.

* * * * *

JLA * THE AUTHORITY

CRISIS NINE

WARREN ELLIS
BRYAN HITCH
PAUL NEARY
LAURA DEPUY

48 PAGES
PRESTIGE FORMAT
DC/WILDSTORM

(NOTE; This story takes place prior to AUTHORITY #9. The AUTHORITY cast is therefore; Jenny Sparks, Jack Hawksmoor, Swift, Apollo, The Midnighter, The Engineer and The Doctor. The JLA cast is not taken from any specific continuity point, but utilises a general core cast of; Superman, Wonder Woman, The Batman, The Flash, Green Lantern, The Martian Manhunter and Steel. May add more JLA members, haven't decided yet.)

CRISIS NINE is a construction system; a hail of self-replicating nanotechnological assemblers that take whatever civilisation's infrastructure it falls upon, and remakes it -- converts it into a heavy industrial military outpost. Any organic objects within are also remade, into fuel canisters for the outpost's great combustion engines. That includes people.

CRISIS NINE isn't from around here. It's a WarSpore, an attempt by a damaged parallel earth to colonise the Multiverse. And it was dropped on Sri Lanka an hour ago.

Here, there is a front line of defense against this sort of thing. It's called THE AUTHORITY. The situation was spotted from The Carrier, their weird 50-mile-wide HQ outside spacetime. All they have to do to get at Crisis Nine is move through a vast regiment of weird war robots and general death machinery. And they need to do it before every human in Sri Lanka is killed for its fuel.

The destruction of the Changeheart, the nexus of Crisis Nine, and the consequent still-birth of the monstrous Base Commander it was growing, should have ended matters. But under cover of the usual property damage The Authority causes in action, the Changeheart opened a door into The Bleed, the vast channel between parallel worlds. Tracking it, The Authority return to the Carrier and move it into The Bleed, taking the chase transuniversal. They emerge from The Bleed --

-- and Green Lantern, on the JLA Watchtower, informs anyone listening that something has just appeared in earth orbit, that it's fifty miles long and thirty five miles high, and that he's never seen anything like it.

Elements of the JLA infiltrate the Carrier to investigate it. Simultaneously, elements of The Authority break into The Watchtower, which looks to them a lot like a weird alien military outpost, as if Crisis Nine impacted on the Moon. On the one hand, this brings The Martian Manhunter, on reconnoitre, into contact with Jenny Sparks on the Carrier, a meeting of two great tactical minds. On the other hand, on the Watchtower, the inexperienced Engineer meets the inexperienced Green Lantern, and The Batman meets The Midnighter. And two of the most paranoid and violent people ever born don't need to meet this way. Things happen too quickly: Apollo departs the Carrier to nail CRISIS NINE, in the form of a huge spore in low Earth orbit, but is intercepted by Superman on a ballistic trajectory -- before it's realised that Apollo wasn't the threat and the WarSpore was, Crisis Nine splits and drops. On the Eastern Seaboard of America. Impacting on not one city, but two. Metropolis. And Gotham.

This time, Crisis Nine isn't taking chances.

Growing Base Commanders, both new Changehearts begin building superguns pointing into The Bleed, that will fire new iterations of Crisis Nine back into The Authority's parallel -- and all the other Earths too, one at a time.

The greatest heroes of two worlds have to save Metropolis, Gotham, their own worlds -- and the whole bloody Multiverse.

...sadly it turns out i made up the drugs thing in my thinkyz....