[Salt-Man Z]

Just read through Tom King's 12-issue The Vision and WOW, that was one of the best comics I've read in a while.

[T77]

Abyss mentioned Coda by Simon Spurrier recently and it reminded me I needed to read volumes 2 and 3. Well, I did and I agree with Abyss, it was excellent! Loved the writing and the art. Top notch fantasy comics.

[Abyss]

T77, on 12 August 2020 - 01:35 PM, said:

Abyss mentioned Coda by Simon Spurrier recently and it reminded me I needed to read volumes 2 and 3. Well, I did and I agree with Abyss, it was excellent! Loved the writing and the art. Top notch fantasy comics.

Glad you liked.
Easily my favorite fantasy comic, and i dont say that lightly coming from recent reads of EAST OF WEST and BIRTHRIGHT.

[T77]

Abyss, on 12 August 2020 - 03:34 PM, said:

T77, on 12 August 2020 - 01:35 PM, said:

Abyss mentioned Coda by Simon Spurrier recently and it reminded me I needed to read volumes 2 and 3. Well, I did and I agree with Abyss, it was excellent! Loved the writing and the art. Top notch fantasy comics.

Glad you liked.
Easily my favorite fantasy comic, and i dont say that lightly coming from recent reads of EAST OF WEST and BIRTHRIGHT.

I am reading another fantasy comic now that I think has this one beat, which is a very high bar. I will let you guys know as soon as I am finished.

[QuickTidal]

DAWN OF X, the new X-MEN ongoing storyline by heavy-hitter (and my fave comic writer of all time) Jonathan Hickman...is...and I don't say this at all lightly...

THE BEST X-MEN comics have been since the initial 12 issues of the Ultimate run back in the early noughts...and POSSIBLY the best the X-MEN has been since the fucking 1980's.

I'm stunned by the fact that not only did the HOUSE OF X/POWERS OF X tell a riveting and amazingly well-crafted story, but it relaunched the mutants and the X-titles in a new era that feels completely new.

In all honestly, it SHOULD feel like Genosha-Redux, but holy hell Hickman's mad genius found a way to make such a thing seem fresh.

Anyways, read this fucking title (there are 6 issues on Unlimited so far).

It is gold standard Marvel stuff. My gods.

[Salt-Man Z]

I really enjoyed HoX/PoX and the first volume of Hickman's X-Men, but all of the characters just sounded "off" the entire time, and it bothered the heck out of me. (Also can't see how the Krakoa situation connects with all the comics that came before.)

[QuickTidal]

Salt-Man Z, on 19 August 2020 - 01:39 PM, said:

I really enjoyed HoX/PoX and the first volume of Hickman's X-Men, but all of the characters just sounded "off" the entire time, and it bothered the heck out of me. (Also can't see how the Krakoa situation connects with all the comics that came before.)

To me they sound off a little because they are ten realities from the one where we last knew them.

I don't know that the Krakoa situation needs to connect with them as a result? That timeline went the way it went. When Moira began living her lives she changed the timeline we are watching to the one in Dawn of X/Krakoa.

And if I'm honest, I feel like this is happening to help ease the X-Men into the MCU in the movies?

Just my two cents on it.

[Salt-Man Z]

QuickTidal, on 19 August 2020 - 02:10 PM, said:

Salt-Man Z, on 19 August 2020 - 01:39 PM, said:

I really enjoyed HoX/PoX and the first volume of Hickman's X-Men, but all of the characters just sounded "off" the entire time, and it bothered the heck out of me. (Also can't see how the Krakoa situation connects with all the comics that came before.)

To me they sound off a little because they are ten realities from the one where we last knew them.

It's not a different reality, though, it's still the original 616 universe, it's just Moira's 10th attempt at fixing it. Which is where my disconnect comes in, because this is still the 616 universe, so we still had 30-40 or whatever years of the X-Men vs Magneto vs Apocalypse etc. That means we had the Age of X-Man and X-Men Disassembled and then some undefined time skip and now Xavier pops up with this Krakoa plan that he Moira concocted back in the 60s or whenever but decided not to spring until just now? Which either renders everything that happened before it completely inconsequential (which doesn't make a ton of sense) or retconned entirely (which makes even less sense.)

[QuickTidal]

Salt-Man Z, on 19 August 2020 - 05:14 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 19 August 2020 - 02:10 PM, said:

Salt-Man Z, on 19 August 2020 - 01:39 PM, said:

I really enjoyed HoX/PoX and the first volume of Hickman's X-Men, but all of the characters just sounded "off" the entire time, and it bothered the heck out of me. (Also can't see how the Krakoa situation connects with all the comics that came before.)

To me they sound off a little because they are ten realities from the one where we last knew them.

It's not a different reality, though, it's still the original 616 universe, it's just Moira's 10th attempt at fixing it. Which is where my disconnect comes in, because this is still the 616 universe, so we still had 30-40 or whatever years of the X-Men vs Magneto vs Apocalypse etc. That means we had the Age of X-Man and X-Men Disassembled and then some undefined time skip and now Xavier pops up with this Krakoa plan that he Moira concocted back in the 60s or whenever but decided not to spring until just now? Which either renders everything that happened before it completely inconsequential (which doesn't make a ton of sense) or retconned entirely (which makes even less sense.)

This is going to get us into the time travel weeds a bit...LOL


Right but according to the 616 rules as per the MCU (Banner's talk with the Ancient One in Endgame/Ant-Man and Falcon and whoever else convo; BTTF is bullshit), it's a different strand of the timeline that branched off when Moira changed something. So it kind of IS a different reality, ten removed from the original. Everything Moira does in those ten lives causes it to shoot off in the new direction. So yes, those things are still in past...but only in the past as far as she got in those lives. And each one changed the one after. So those things happened, they just happened in a now disconnected timeline branch in the past in Moira's first life.

So the original timeline with all those events happens, and we saw it all happen, but Moira's actions in HoX/PoX change that and created new branched realities until they settled on the one it lands in (Moira X), so no one else in that timeline knows/saw it. So like all of that can be the same, or different. It DOES seem like HoX/PoX imply that the major stuff doesn't occur till the X1 war timeline anyways, so you still have room in the branched timeline for those things to have occurred. Magneto certainly references the notion that they did in some of his speeches in the books.

I would argue those things didn't become inconsequential. They happened. We saw them happen. We are just further along the timeline now and other things are happening that erased or rejigged those things. Do the characters lose their baggage? Maybe. We don't know. I doubt it though since the overarching theme of HoX/PoX/DoX being that "humans re going to human, mutants are going to mutant".

As for the retconning, that is a business decision. When the Comics wing of Marvel was still under the fist of Ike Perlmutter (a Trump supporter, and absolutely piece of human refuse), he was a vindictive POS and disappeared the FF and unfocused the X-Men because he didn't have control over them in all media (movies, tv)...and he resented Fiege's success over the film wing of what they did own. This went away with the Fox merger becuase both those titles came under the sway of Fiege instead (and Perlmutter became just another Chairman under Disney's control). As such, Fiege pulled rank and first the FF and now the X-titles were given a relaunch on the comics side to sway them in the direction of the MCU. From an MCU standpoint, do you retrofit the existing X-Men (comics, not Fox movie X-Men) after all they went through that you mentioned, into the MCU with all that exceeding amount of baggage, or do you give them a fresh comic retcon to build on? They do a solid job in HoX and PoX to fuse MCU tidbits into the narrative background, stuff like the Man Machine Society/Nimrod stuff swirling out of Stark Tech (amongst mentions of SHIELD, SWORD ect.)...which would never have been the case in the previous X-titles which rarely, if ever, cross contaminated with the Avengers except in "event books" like A VS X.

So yeah, it seems pointless to retcon them now, but from a business and film perspective of the next phases of Marvel as a juggernaut? It makes more sense. I get why that would seem exhausting as a fan of them though for years.

Also, from what I understand in the MCU, the X-Men will be coming in from another reality due to the Snap/UnSnap/Snap/Snap...so whatever happened to the MCU heroes in the X-Men original timeline/reality won't be the same as what we know in ours.

[T77]

There's a really good 2000AD Humble Bundle. There's Kingdom and Brink by Dan Abnett and Zenith from Grant Morrison, as well as Slaine, and the first 5 Judge Dredd Case Files to name a few. And some of these are complete runs. I'm going to purchase the complete bundle

[Salt-Man Z]

QuickTidal, on 19 August 2020 - 05:52 PM, said:

This is going to get us into the time travel weeds a bit...LOL

Right but according to the 616 rules as per the MCU (Banner's talk with the Ancient One in Endgame/Ant-Man and Falcon and whoever else convo; BTTF is bullshit), it's a different strand of the timeline that branched off when Moira changed something. So it kind of IS a different reality, ten removed from the original.

Sorry, but this is just factually incorrect: the Marvel 616 universe is Moira's 10th life. The first nine lives were the alternate timelines. And you can't quote MCU time travel at Marvel 616, since they're completely different universes that aren't at all mechanically similar. (In fact, 616 time travel does work like BTTF more often than not.)

This post has been edited by Salt-Man Z: 20 August 2020 - 01:35 AM

[QuickTidal]

Salt-Man Z, on 20 August 2020 - 01:34 AM, said:

Sorry, but this is just factually incorrect: the Marvel 616 universe is Moira's 10th life.

It's all her lives, just a little different branch of that timeline. You can't think of 616 as a completely different universe for each life. It's a timeline branch within that universe (or for arguments sake it is a different universe, but so minisuclely different as to not be renamed. It's why denoting the exact reality by a number is such a sketchy proposition in the first place. You can't, for example, change things in 616 to get the 1610 (Ultimate universe) as a result. The numebered universes are what they are, but branched timeline changes can happen within them and have. DOFP is an example of that. Sending someone back to prevent a Sentinel apocalypse is a different branch, but same universe.

Salt-Man Z, on 20 August 2020 - 01:34 AM, said:

The first nine lives were the alternate timelines.

We don't know which if any of those represent her original timeline as we know it because nothing before she meets Xavier in them shows that life (the one were her husband was abusive ect.), it's not at all the first because that's the timeline in which she lived and died without knowing of her mutation. She doesn't meet Xavier in life 1 till she's 17 and it doesn't bear any affect on her, she marries and dies in a normal life. But the 10th is the one where she breaks the status quo by braking Xavier's will for living peacefully...in the 60's. So that can't be the original timeline either.

Salt-Man Z, on 20 August 2020 - 01:34 AM, said:

And you can't quote MCU time travel at Marvel 616, since they're completely different universes that aren't at all mechanically similar. (In fact, 616 time travel does work like BTTF more often than not.)

I'm saying that from a business standpoint in real life, that MCU time travel is what's on the table now. The MCU has not been given a proper designation for universe reality...is it 616? Maybe. It's not 1610. The only mention we get of it really is in. SPIDER-MAN FFH in which Mysterio lies about 616 being his home. Disney/Marvel are streamlining the comics and the MCU from here on out. So if I had to guess as we get into more time shenanigans, it will be the 616.

I'm not saying anything is written in stone, I'm saying we don't have enough info to call it one way or the other. But none of Moira's life timelines show the exact original branch without more info. But I can't imagine that X is the original timeline, since that's the one where she breaks Xaviers spirit.

[Abyss]

The thing is, the way it's set up, Marvel can declare Hickman's entire run a dream, timey whimey shenanigans, alt universe, Xavier is possessed and all the mutants were clones the whole time, and undo any part of it.

It doesn't matter what the exact reality is because COMICS!
Moi, am jus enjoying da ride, chere.

[T77]

T77, on 13 August 2020 - 12:46 PM, said:

Abyss, on 12 August 2020 - 03:34 PM, said:

T77, on 12 August 2020 - 01:35 PM, said:

Abyss mentioned Coda by Simon Spurrier recently and it reminded me I needed to read volumes 2 and 3. Well, I did and I agree with Abyss, it was excellent! Loved the writing and the art. Top notch fantasy comics.

Glad you liked.
Easily my favorite fantasy comic, and i dont say that lightly coming from recent reads of EAST OF WEST and BIRTHRIGHT.

I am reading another fantasy comic now that I think has this one beat, which is a very high bar. I will let you guys know as soon as I am finished.

OK, I finished the fantasy comic I mentioned above. I picked this up during a Comixology sale a while ago, and was hesitant to read it as the premise didn't seem that great. But, as this guy is one of my favorite comic book writers, I had to read it. The comic is Joe the Barbarian by Grant Morrison, and it was incredible. Everything about it was great. I think this does edge out Coda for best fantasy comic. This might even be Morrison's best work. Right up there with Doom Patrol.

[QuickTidal]

Tanking a break from regular books for a week or so, so I’m dived into the Marvel Unlimited app.

Read Hickmans X stuff, and am currently on Nick Spencer’s Amazing Spider-Man run.

Please throw some other recent Marvel suggestions at me if you have them.

[T77]

QuickTidal, on 31 August 2020 - 01:04 AM, said:

Tanking a break from regular books for a week or so, so I'm dived into the Marvel Unlimited app.

Read Hickmans X stuff, and am currently on Nick Spencer's Amazing Spider-Man run.

Please throw some other recent Marvel suggestions at me if you have them.

Immortal Hulk - most love it. I've been reading it on MU. I like it, but don't love it.

Daredevil by Chip Zdarsky. I've only read a few issues, but I've seen very high praise for this.

Darth Vader (2017) by Charles Soule. This is supposed to be excellent. I read the first issue last night and it was great.

Doctor Strange by Mark Waid. Not too much talk about this, but if you like Waid, as I do, this is good.

[Abyss]

T77, on 31 August 2020 - 01:41 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 31 August 2020 - 01:04 AM, said:

Tanking a break from regular books for a week or so, so I'm dived into the Marvel Unlimited app.

Read Hickmans X stuff, and am currently on Nick Spencer's Amazing Spider-Man run.

Please throw some other recent Marvel suggestions at me if you have them.

Immortal Hulk - most love it. I've been reading it on MU. I like it, but don't love it.

Daredevil by Chip Zdarsky. I've only read a few issues, but I've seen very high praise for this.

Darth Vader (2017) by Charles Soule. This is supposed to be excellent. I read the first issue last night and it was great.

Doctor Strange by Mark Waid. Not too much talk about this, but if you like Waid, as I do, this is good.

I've been going old school with Miller's original run on DAREDEVIL. Leaving aside what Miller has become, this is pretty great comics.

Will also reco the entire run of 'NEW WOLVERINE'. There was every reason this should not have worked. It did. Laura was a good character who became a fantastic character with this writing and art.

Also went retro with some classic 80s AVENGERS... ymmv, there's some great stuff and some very dated stuff. Dr Druid has not become any cooler with age.

The SPIDER-VERSE crossover. If you have not read this, you should.

[amphibian]

Has Marvel added all of the Daredevil comics between Miller's run and Tree of Knowledge?

[T77]

I should also add Aaron's recent and massive Thor run. I've read almost all of it, I liked it, but not as much as others. Aaron is a bit too wordy for me, but seems like I am the exception as most love Aaron.

[QuickTidal]

Thanks all, some good stuff I'd not have thought about before.

I'm currently checking out both EXCALIBER and MAURAUDERS from the new X-titles, but after that I'll dive into some of those reccos!