[Jheral]

Abyss;146321 said:

It's possible she wasn't a goddess at the time Kallor was demanding tribute.

- Abyss, assumes the open nature of above post doesn't merit negative rep this time.

Perfectly true. She might have Ascended after Kallor's empire fell. There's certainly nothing to disprove that theory, aside from Mappo thinking she's Elder. At least, nothing I can remember.

[Bl1nder]

but if you think about it, do we even know how old Mappo is? I know that the Nameless Idiots helped him live beyond the normal years for a Trell, but do we know his age exactly? What im getting with this is, is that if Mappo is old enough, perhaps him thinking Ardatha is a Elder is quite true

[Wry]

As far as i remember Mappo is several hundered years old, not tens of thousand.
Presumably from that perspective he may think she was "elder" whether she was an actaul elder god or just an old god.

[Folken]

What does how old Mappo is have to do with his perspective of elder gods?

As far as I can tell Elder God is just a term used to describe the gods that were a part of the old pantheon. K'rul, Draconus, Nightchill, Mael, Osric (though he is still worshiped)

[Bl1nder]

Yes but, osric is part of the new pnatheon aswell, so is k'rul i think... oh nevermind i give up

[Dark Mac]

Jheral;146492 said:

Perfectly true. She might have Ascended after Kallor's empire fell. There's certainly nothing to disprove that theory, aside from Mappo thinking she's Elder. At least, nothing I can remember.

Healing someone from over 100,000 years in the future would be quite a feat for someone who's not ascended. Not to mention that we have no indication of her being widely worshipped in that period, so it only makes sense that her worship base was at its height long before.

[Jheral]

Dark Mac;146590 said:

Healing someone from over 100,000 years in the future would be quite a feat for someone who's not ascended. Not to mention that we have no indication of her being widely worshipped in that period, so it only makes sense that her worship base was at its height long before.

And how do we know that she "healed him 100,000 years in the future"? Just because Silchas Ruin showed the fall of the crippled god to Brys Beddict, doesn't mean that he took him back in time, right?

[Dark Mac]

Jheral;146702 said:

And how do we know that she "healed him 100,000 years in the future"? Just because Silchas Ruin showed the fall of the crippled god to Brys Beddict, doesn't mean that he took him back in time, right?

Uh, IIRC, she talks about how she's about to lose her throne (or just did?), which would've been around the time of the end of Kallor's empire. So, I don't see how that healing could be achieved without some sort of temporal breach...after all, there's a difference between looking at something and mending someone's flesh.

[Illuyankas]

It was a memory, similar to where Osric was staying and watching the KCCM and Deragoth in Raruku's memories. Neither of them were really there.

[Dark Mac]

In that case, I'm not sure exactly how it works. How can a memory kill you if it's not real?

[Dolorous Menhir]

Dark Mac;146814 said:

In that case, I'm not sure exactly how it works. How can a memory kill you if it's not real?

L'oric was pretty sure the Deragoth in the "memory of Raraku" were going to kill him. And Greyfrog came from that memory, and is assuredly real. I suppose a similar situation was occuring with Ardat(h)a living in the past somehow.

[Bl1nder]

Living in the past... that sounds a bit demented imho

-Bl1nder, is exploring the secrets of time and space

[Dolorous Menhir]

Bl1nder;146886 said:

Living in the past... that sounds a bit demented imho

-Bl1nder, is exploring the secrets of time and space

Well, it's what she said she was doing, so you'll have to accept it.

[Folken]

Bl1nder;146886 said:

Living in the past... that sounds a bit demented imho

-Bl1nder, is exploring the secrets of time and space

K'Rul living inside someone's dream for the most part of Gardens or an entire warren for the Imass in the mhybe's dream? Seems logical to you then;)

[Bl1nder]

Jen said:

K'Rul living inside someone's dream for the most part of Gardens or an entire warren for the Imass in the mhybe's dream? Seems logical to you then;)

Aye it does

But yeah, theres no argument here, anything can be possible in MBotF

-Bl1nder, agress with everything and everyone today

[Obdigore]

I would just like to point out that I seriously doubt Ardata is _still_ a vassal of Kallor, as I assumed you were suggesting from your title.

[Talon]

Just a crazy theory here...but at the end of BH in Kartool the spiders are waiting to spring their traps /webs.....so maybe something to do with Ardata or just pure insectoid hunger! Again, I stress, just a crazy theory!

[Binder of Demons]

Could Ardata have any relevance to the positions of weaver, or spinner, or even seamstress as mentioned in the various high houses of light, dark, death, life?
The description of her being, hair like flames and eyes the hue of beaten gold. Doesn't that resemble some other character? Can't remember it now. But maybe that appearance was a deception.

But something else just came to mind, and it may work too. If she is someone in hiding for a long time, could she possibly be APSALAR, Lady of thieves? It is stated that she's been missing form the pantheon for ages, though the statement of her being an Imass doesn't tally with the physical description.

Quote

'..the Mistress of Thieves, who had vanished from the pantheon long ago, although, if the legends of Darujhistan held any truth, she had reappeared briefly less than a century past, only to vanish a second time.'
'An Imass? There are no iconic representations of the Mistress - which is odd enough, possibly a prohibition enforced by the temples. What are her symbols? oh yes. Footprints. And a veil' (BH UK Tpb, p.40)

Now, a veil can easily resemble a web, and the spider imagery could also easily apply to a thief.

I don't know , I'm all confused again.

[paladin]

its mildly viable, but would a thief be a good healer?

[Blend]

Alrighty, so here's a little bit of my $0.02.

It's almost guaranteed that Ardata and Ardatha are the same person. I think it's also likely that Ardata is an EG. EG of what? Well, let's keep in mind that through her connection to her goddess, Mogora made the entire moon seem nearer to Wu. The question remains whether the moon actually was nearer, or whether this was a trick of light, but if I remember correctly, there were beginning to be repercussions to the moon being so close to Wu. So perhaps Ardata is EG of the moon, or the night, or something of that sort?

Next, you all seem to be saying that just because she hasn't been mentioned before, this must mean that she couldn't be an Elder Goddess. But then, let's look at the fact that up until Bonehunters and the Reaper's Gale prologue we only heard VERY seldomly, and in passing ONLY, about Kilmandaros. Doesn't mean that she isn't important or won't be powerful, blah blah blah.

Next, Ardata herself says that she has been in hiding for sometime. She seems to be saying this from four or five years AFTER the fall of the Crippled God, just before Kallor destroys his empire so as to stop the Elder Gods from taking it from him. It makes sense for her to be pretending to be Ardatha, queen of whatever land she's queen of. She realizes that Kallor is about to come down on her and destroy her, but because she's got spiffy Elder Goddess powers, she makes herself disappear. So, what better place to hide than in the past? I mean, compared to the whole storyline of Udinaas' kid growing up so quickly in the Imass dreamworld thing that he's in, or the memory of the past that Osserc hides in, doesn't an Elder Goddess hiding in time make sense? And it doesn't even have to necessarily be in the ACTUAL past. Why couldn't she just be hiding in a memory of Jackuruku just before Kallor destroyed it? Same idea as Osserc, and if she IS, in fact, an Elder Goddess, it would make pretty much complete sense.

I know that the above points are a little disjointed, but gimme a break, I haven't done critical thinking exercises in a while. But I can't help but agree with DM here, it all seems to fit together just too well for it to be mere coincidence.