[Dancer+]

Urko Crust;146402 said:

I like when i havent got a clue what is going on, makes you think more about what you are reading. I dont like the Dramatis Personae at all it nearly put me off and i still dont like it in the later books. Bit irrational, i just ignore it now.

I found the Dramatis Personae slighly obscure when i first opened the book, but within minutes adapted. I like the touch very much, not that i use it for reference (as seemingly it should be used) but sometimes when picking the book up reading the Dramatis Personae can inspire a sense of nostalgia, and it helps to trigger memories of minor characters.

[stone monkey]

GotM drops you right in the middle of the action. Some people find this confusing. Also it's downright sombre in tone, some find this offputting. Personally, I found it refreshing. There's a lot to be said for a book that makes you run to catch up.

It's as if The Empire Strikes Back had been the first Star Wars film released, I suspect the series would have been a noble failure had that been the case.

[Fanatic-Templar]

As far as I'm concerned, the mild confusion of the beginning is not an important problem. In fact, I liked it quite abit.

The real problem is that the book reads like a cross between Dungeons & Dragons and Dragonball Z. Take the Bridgeburners. Leaving out the meddling god and Whiskeyjack - who's more of an NPC in the book - you have one assassin/rogue, one mage, one healer, one barbarian - correction, a half-orc barbarian and Hedge and Fiddler, the more original two. At the time, mages even used spellbooks, by the way.

Then there's the unbelievably powerful characters and compared to the numerous stormtrooper characters. You start off with an entire regiment slaughtered by two people and a bunch of summoned hellhounds. Then there's the assault on Moon's Spawn and the death of I don't remember how many people. And Whiskeyjack mentions the destruction of the Bridgeburners. That's a lot of nameless people dying in a very short time period.

In contrast, as I was saying, there's the people who scream 'epic level'. Like Anomander Rake. Multiclassed too, a deadly fighter and a deadly mage. According to the rules in the Dungeons and Dragons core rulebooks, a lv20 fighter has a decent chance of surviving if he sticks his head out of a moving vehicle in order to hit an oncoming van. That's the feeling one gets from some of these characters. The depressing end of the book reads like a Dragonball arc - powerful thingy comes along, destroys random soldiers, is slightly slowed down by other powerful people, and suddenly one of the heroes discovers secret power and goes Super Sayan ( Blood of a Hound of Shadow! ) and destroys the enemy. But then, someone evil bigger and badder comes along. And he's met with an even bigger and badder hero. Etc.

It's a pity that, unlike Robert Jordan, Erikson didn't get his horrible books once his series was well underway. With Gardens of the Moon as the first book, it's no wonder that many people turn away before they come to the wonderful books that follow.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

It's not too surprising that there are shadows of D&D in the books. This world was originally created as a role-playing game, if memory serves correctly. It stands to reason that this influence would show, especially in the first book.

[Varunwe]

I liked Dragonball Z

There's only one moment in GotM that gave me a Dragonball feeling: when QB said something like open all seven warrens.

It's Darujhistan that gave me a D&D feeling (having only seen the cartoon), what with a thief and an assassin and all.

[Astra]

Abyss;143868 said:

In the first hundred pages or so, you're thrown into a war you know nothing about, ref'd a bunch of significant characters who appear to have died just before you got there, a magic system that seems to make no sense at all, some non-humans who resemble neither elves, dwarves or anything else familiar, a bunch of gods who seem to be good guys, working against an empire who also seem to be good guys, some oversized dogs who use armies as chew toys, all the good guys are ambiguous enough to be bad guys and the only good guy is an overweight sorceress who just allowed a bunch of soldiers to be killed...

- Abyss, loved that about the book.

Have not read SE yet, but is reminds me of the first book of the Black Company by Glen Cook. Exactly the same sort of feelings and very confusing. You are thrown into the middle of the conflict, you don't understand anything...and after a while you start to wonder, why do you read it? Because English is not my first language, I though it might be the problem. So, I started to read slower, concentrating more on every detail, I also re-read the first 70 pages...never regreted my perseverance. It paid huge dividents later.

[Terez]

Hmm...I found Gardens to be a bit hard to get into the first time I picked it up, but I think that was because I only had the first three books, primarily. I hate getting into a series and then being too broke to get the next book. It's bad enough having to wait for the ones that haven't been released yet. Also, I was into some projects at the time, and I think I knew I didn't really have time to read it. So, I finally ordered the rest of the series and picked it up again, and it was much easier to get into this time around.

I'm having a bit of a hard time getting rolling with Deadhouse Gates, I think primarily because of the culture/geography/character differences. Only a bit, though. The Encyclopedia Malazica is helpful.

[mad1]

It was a bit strange in the beginning keeping up with all the characters but l just kept thumbing back to the start of the book to the dramatis personae and that helped alot.By page 50 to a hundred l was hooked a went with the ride.After the first read there were some gaps but after reading to book six and then going back to read gardens again it was much clearer.It was even better the second time around.

[Gem Windcaster]

I had the same experience as many of you did - I really didn't think
it was anything special about the book. But I had decided to read the
malazan series so I did. It took three books to get me hooked.
I think the reason for this is that the Malazan books is such a large story -
it is nothing like other series. The scope is so great and the details so
elaborate, that it takes some time for an average reader to grasp the story, the plot and the author's way
of telling the tale.
I know I had problem grasping alot of SE's concepts and characters in the first book. I got better at it,
but for instance it took some time to accept that certain things take time - for instance the definition of
the Warrens, or what ascendants are about, and all that jazz.
My stubborness took me through the first books, then I understood more, and
was intrigued by the intellectuality of it all.

[mmdw45]

I read MoI first--which I think is a great starting point for the series--so my problem with GoTM was that I was expecting a lot more out of it. For instance, I was expecting Paran and Tattersail to have a much deeper relationship with each other and with Whiskeyjack than they actually turned out to have; after initial distrust, they fend off a Hound of Shadow and a mad puppet together, discover a mutual attraction, and then take off on separate missions, of which Tattersail's gets her killed. I was expecting them to have been, well, good friends at the very least.

Compared to DHG and MoI, I didn't get a good sense of the theme of the book or what the story was supposed to be *about*. (MoI's prologue sets its theme up nicely: compassion & ancient wrongs.) It didn't help that I had no idea what the title imagery "Gardens of the Moon" was supposed to evoke. I might very well have said the Eight Deadly Words ("I Don't Care What Happens To These People") and quit the book if not for the fact that I *did* care what happened to these people later on.

To me, GoTM was a necessary prequel to the stories I'm actually interested in. I wish I could give it more credit than that.

~Max Wilson

[Dolorous Menhir]

Paran and Tattersail were more than good friends. They had it off at least once.

[Talon]

Monk;142339 said:

I don't think I experienced any difficulty with the beginning, because I read Memories of Ice first. So I was probably more excited to read it because I could find out about these characters I was already familiar with.

I read MoI first too, got it as a present, was about 200 pages in and said to myself 'Am I missing something here' flipped to the back of the book and saw the covers of GoTM and DHG....then said 'ok I'm on the third book of a series, makes sense'...kept going..loved it!!!! went back and started the series where I should have and now reading BH ...keep them coming SE!!

[mmdw45]

Dolorous Menhir;155324 said:

Paran and Tattersail were more than good friends. They had it off at least once.

Carnal relations do not necessarily imply deep friendship. It didn't seem to me that they ever got to the "good friends" stage, much less the "deep connection" stage.

Max Wilson

[Saccian]

I'm sure others have said it already. I did find this book a little hard to follow first read through. Mostly due to the large cast you are introduced and the fact you are thrown right into the middle of the action of a long campaign. And as soon as you start to get whats going on you get thrown over to another city with even more characters.

Personally I feel a little more background story on Paran and his work with the Adjunct would have made it a little easier to grasp things as well as a bit more on the Bridgeburners leading up to the seige of Pale. Even a little bit of them digging the tunnel may have helped some.

Some of the actions scenes go by so fast as well. Namely where Raest goes from a plain, to a dream and then to Darujhistan, along with Paran getting transfported away to fight some mean tree man. I had to reread that part three times to figure out what the hell was going on. I'm still a little hazy on Tool fighting the Finnest, more of how they got where they were. The Malazan vs Moon Spawn showdown was a little crazy at first too. Couldn't get what was going on, but I think that was intentional as to represent how Tattersail viewed things.

By the end though, I was very happy with the book.

[Gem Windcaster]

To me, the fact that everything goes by so fast, is the main reason I like
the book. Besides, it's really enjoyable to re-read it. It would have been fun to
know more about the digging in the tunnels, but I really don't need it.
I love the way I didn't know the characters, and had to wait for more books
to really get to know them. If I'd already known Paran, Fiddler and the rest from
GoTM, then it wouldn't have been such a surprise and such a joy to read
DHG and the rest of the books.
You can't have a cake and keep it. That's how I think at least.

[KILLERAOC]

I actually just finished this book and i honestly dont know if i even want to begin the next one...what the hell ill just spill out everything that got to me in no particular order

I was looking for something along the lines of the early Black Company and got referred to GoTM...after picking it up it seems to share alot of the issues that made me dislike Martains Song of Ice and Fire books. I couldnt even finish the first damn book of that series....i felt detached from the majority of the characters in the book, and hated the rest of them (most of all the damn princess-in-exile crap).

Lets see, with this book...okay to begin with that "epic" battle between Tattersails band and the MoonSpawn was a huge downer...i remeber actually laughing outloud. I couldnt help but picture myself as one of the Marines, sighing as magic cloud began melting my comrads, "Well f*ck, what the hell am i doing here?".

What little i learned about Tattersail didnt leave me impressed.....in the army yet soft (physically AND emotionaly). Overall she felt "weak", despite being something like a century old(?) and (supposedly) a master mage. Just my luck she is "reborn" and become "more powerful then you can possibly imagine" - cant stand this type of female character.

I liked Lorn, i'm a sucker for "mere mortals" who can combat powerful magic through artifacts/natural ability/technology...her undead companion Tool was considerably less interesting, as was their mission. Ultimatly, after Paran harped about her enough, i knew she was going to die...bummer


I'll accept that women serve in branches of the Empires' military in this sword/sorcery era army...but the idea that a professional sword-era regular army accepts 13 year old girls is stupid to the extreme...and nothing said can change my mind on that. I actually re-read that scene several times thinking i was missing something...but nope...thats what actually happened.

Paran was...okay i guess...but i couldnt buy into any of his character "development" seeing as i didnt really buy into his relationship with Tattersail...(oh she meant THAT much to you? Love at first sight? News to me!). We are told little about his relationship with Lorn except that he considered himself "a tool", and is willing to blame her (without any proof) for just about everything he can think of.

Bridgeburners - What can i say...I didnt give a **** about these people...who can blame me? Whiskeyjack and Co. arnt given much book time, and he himself appears to be blind to the obvious. If some of your major characters are "faceless warriors in a faceless war", then the reader must establish an emotional connection with at least one of them...(Reading Black Company made me feel like i knew and cared about Croaker...and through him i eagarly learned about the Company and its exploits). Whiskeyjacks portions of the book just made him feel old, tired, and worn-down...yes i KNOW that was the point, but it wasnt presented in a way that made me care about him...or what he did in the past.

Lastly the city scenes....yeah i can honestly say i basically started speed reading...hate characters like the "Foolish Mage" that it often focused around. I wanted him dead the instant he was introduced.

I had mixed feelings about the thief Crokus...but as the book went on i quickly realized he was no Garret (from Thief, T2 etc...best damn thief ever). And looking at the novels outcome...his entire story arc felt "tacked-on" to me.

anyway...rant over...thats all i can think of for now after finishing...ill comeback to it if i remeber more

[mmdw45]

KILLERAOC;156705 said:

I actually just finished this book and i honestly dont know if i even want to begin the next one

Yeah, well, I know what you mean about not relating to any of the characters. If I'd started with GoTM instead of MoI I might have just quit right there. I liked Paran a *lot* better in MoI, though I still didn't grok Whiskeyjack the first couple of times I read it, and Quick Ben becomes a really interesting fellow. Hope you give either DG or MoI a shot.

-Max

[Gem Windcaster]

Re-reading the GoTM after reading the other books really
brings alot. Try it.

[jscottnelson]

I will have to log in as one who had to give GotM two tries before it took.

As many people have said, there is an element of being "dropped into the middle" of the action. That didn't bother me so much, because the action I was being dropped into was very intriguing to me. Because so little was explained about some of the characters, I constantly felt I was listening in on conversations that did not mean a lot to me -- because the context of the places and people and situations meant nothing at that time. I know I checked at least twice to make sure that GotM WAS the first book, because it didn't feel that way.

As I have continued in the story, many of those initial questions were answered somewhat. But in all honesty, I believe that SE could have done some small things in the writing of GotM to make things a little more understandable and draw in those who have trouble. I think he intentionally wrote it this way, as a resistance to the usual "here in the beginning of the book I'm going to tell you everything about the world so you know what the big battle is about." I don't like that either. But in structuring the story a little more with a little more description, I think that whole ideas (such as the magic, and the god/mortal connections/fights) could have flowed a little more evenly.

I loved book two -- and felt that in general it had none of the problems of book one. But in book three I have definately had a few chapters where I tend to "skim" a little more than really read.

Overall, I'd have to say that the scope of SE's world-building is masterful -- probably best out there. I like GRRM's early writing better, and I think his writing is definately an easier read. But the details in SE's world knock me out.

[Bl1nder]

KILLERAOC;156705 said:

I actually just finished this book and i honestly dont know if i even want to begin the next one...what the hell ill just spill out everything that got to me in no particular order

I was looking for something along the lines of the early Black Company and got referred to GoTM...after picking it up it seems to share alot of the issues that made me dislike Martains Song of Ice and Fire books. I couldnt even finish the first damn book of that series....i felt detached from the majority of the characters in the book, and hated the rest of them (most of all the damn princess-in-exile crap).

Lets see, with this book...okay to begin with that "epic" battle between Tattersails band and the MoonSpawn was a huge downer...i remeber actually laughing outloud. I couldnt help but picture myself as one of the Marines, sighing as magic cloud began melting my comrads, "Well f*ck, what the hell am i doing here?".

What little i learned about Tattersail didnt leave me impressed.....in the army yet soft (physically AND emotionaly). Overall she felt "weak", despite being something like a century old(?) and (supposedly) a master mage. Just my luck she is "reborn" and become "more powerful then you can possibly imagine" - cant stand this type of female character.

I liked Lorn, i'm a sucker for "mere mortals" who can combat powerful magic through artifacts/natural ability/technology...her undead companion Tool was considerably less interesting, as was their mission. Ultimatly, after Paran harped about her enough, i knew she was going to die...bummer


I'll accept that women serve in branches of the Empires' military in this sword/sorcery era army...but the idea that a professional sword-era regular army accepts 13 year old girls is stupid to the extreme...and nothing said can change my mind on that. I actually re-read that scene several times thinking i was missing something...but nope...thats what actually happened.

Paran was...okay i guess...but i couldnt buy into any of his character "development" seeing as i didnt really buy into his relationship with Tattersail...(oh she meant THAT much to you? Love at first sight? News to me!). We are told little about his relationship with Lorn except that he considered himself "a tool", and is willing to blame her (without any proof) for just about everything he can think of.

Bridgeburners - What can i say...I didnt give a **** about these people...who can blame me? Whiskeyjack and Co. arnt given much book time, and he himself appears to be blind to the obvious. If some of your major characters are "faceless warriors in a faceless war", then the reader must establish an emotional connection with at least one of them...(Reading Black Company made me feel like i knew and cared about Croaker...and through him i eagarly learned about the Company and its exploits). Whiskeyjacks portions of the book just made him feel old, tired, and worn-down...yes i KNOW that was the point, but it wasnt presented in a way that made me care about him...or what he did in the past.

Lastly the city scenes....yeah i can honestly say i basically started speed reading...hate characters like the "Foolish Mage" that it often focused around. I wanted him dead the instant he was introduced.

I had mixed feelings about the thief Crokus...but as the book went on i quickly realized he was no Garret (from Thief, T2 etc...best damn thief ever). And looking at the novels outcome...his entire story arc felt "tacked-on" to me.

anyway...rant over...thats all i can think of for now after finishing...ill comeback to it if i remeber more

Quite frankly I dont agree, but since im lazy, I aint gonna make a proper reposne. What really anoys me however is, your attack on Tay. Basically what you've done is, you read the first book, and the nyou decided that everything will go the way it has, read the rest of the books, then turn around, and read your post again.
What I didnt like about GotM was all the information, names and the lot litelarry trown at you. Mortals, Ascendants, Amries, Deck of Dragons, all teh different cards in it, and then jsut when you started to get an idea aoubt it all, BANG you went in durijistan... anoying! But apart from that, I liked it