[Bl1nder]

Re-reading The Bonehunters, something drew my atention. Leoman of the Flails talking to Corabb, telling him that Dasem Ultor has ascended. Then he adds "Dessembrae is a reluctant god, just like Rake with the Tiste Andii", would that imply that Rake doesnt wish to lead the Andii, but does it for some other reason, or that he might become a god?

[GardenGnome]

Rake is worshipped as a god by the Andii - after all, his is the Son of Darkness. But he doesn't want any godhood, just like Dessembrae.

[Bl1nder]

Ah, cheers for clearing it up for me

[Folken]

The only Andii we know that worship Rake are the Bluerose.
The Andii that are in his company in Moon's Spawn only follow him, but do not worship him

[amphibian]

Jen said:

The Andii that are in his company in Moon's Spawn only follow him, but do not worship him

Aren't a good chunk of them related to him?

Worship would be kind of stretching it there.

[Illuyankas]

Kind of the equivalent of being persuaded to go down the shops, just to get them out of the house for a while. A house of DESPAIR!!!

Worst analogy ever, but I like it anyway.

[Dolorous Menhir]

amphibian;134094 said:

Aren't a good chunk of them related to him?

The ones on Moon Spawn? None of them are known to be related to him, that I can remember.

Rake's known relatives are

- Andarist & Rake's children, grandchildren, etc on Drift Avalii. Currently, Andarist is dead and the rest of them are with the Fourteenth wherever it's going.

- Silchas Ruin, who is somewhere, doing something. But not in Moon's Spawn.

[Tiste Simeon]

Dolorous Menhir said:

Silchas Ruin, who is somewhere, doing something. But not in Moon's Spawn.

And when Silchas gets back together with Rake, it should be a fairly beautiful scene!

Who worships Dassem? He has a cult, IIRC, but it isn't a particular group of people, just scattered worshippers, am I right?

[GardenGnome]

We don't know, basically. But there are some, probably a lot of old soldiers and hte like.

[Dolorous Menhir]

There have been references to Dessembrae worship among the Malazan armies, but that it was suppressed along with all the other military cults (when Laseen took power?). The cult of Fener was suppressed at the same time.

[Chaos]

I wouldn't be surprised to see them appear here and there, suppression has proven to be far from absolute.

[Obdigore]

but remember, what does 'worshipping' entail?

Maybe just the fact that many older soldiers (possibly retired) view Dasem as the 'best' out there, much like the Andii view Rake as the 'best' out there, lead to his rise in power? It seems that Worshipping in the MBotF goes from praying to the person for 10 hours a day to 'knowing' that this person/god/ascendant is the best at (insert whatever here).

I think that is why Hood has kept his realm for so long. Because everyone acknowledges him as the god of death and afterlife, and thats just how it is.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Chaos;134731 said:

I wouldn't be surprised to see them appear here and there, suppression has proven to be far from absolute.

Well, on the one hand, Fener cultists Stormy & Gesler were still active in the military after the suppression, and recruiting (they converted Truth to Fener-love).

On the other, I wouldn't be surprised if the cult-suppression, though extending to all deities, was really targeted at the Dessembrae followers, since he (Dassem Ultor) was the rival that Laseen had just attempted to off. So there are probably not many Dessembrae cultists, at least not active ones.

[tiam]

It wasnt actually cult suppression. In NOK (not really spoiler) it says that the army literally worshipped Dassem. That could have been how he ascended and became Dessembrae. But the cult/3rd army wouldnt need to be suppressed seen as it was virtually wiped out in the first siege of Yghatan

[Locke Reaper]

Best way to supress anything is by destroying anyone/thing related to it. So i'd say that the 'supression' worked very well.

Dessem would be pretty powerful if whole legions believed in him, worship does not necessarily mean praying and priests. just believing is strong enough to make already powerful beings more powerful.

[Tiste Simeon]

Suppression seemingly worked well... But as we know, Lasseen isn't that good at completely eradicating things she doesn't like...

[Bl1nder]

I dont think many people believe in Dasaebre, since most people believe Dasem ultor is dead, and only few people know what actually hapened

[Aptorian]

Bl1nder;134953 said:

I dont think many people believe in Dasaebre, since most people believe Dasem ultor is dead, and only few people know what actually hapened

Ah but even the people believe in some form of ascension and a spiritworld, were they can pray for people. If Dassem was already the center of a cult before his death, then the followers are sure to have taken this as his ascension to some kind of Godhood that now actually might have a true purpose.

Pray to keep their sons and daughters safe in the army, pray for a swift victory, pray for good omens, pray to thank Dassem for their lives in the most dangerous times of his command... and pray for his return in this, the darkest time of the empire.

[Morgoth]

this ofc assume that it is commonly known that Dasem and Desembra (spelling?) are one and the same. Remember that there is plenty of confusion as to when exactly Dasem ascended. Was he an ascendant already at Y'Gathan? Quite possibly, but we do not know. For all we know, Dasem might have been Dessembrae even before he joined up with Kellanvend and Dancer, though this is indeed unlikely.

My point is that the worshippers of Dessembrae, the lord of tragedy, do not need to be but soldiers, and there's no reason for the worship to be confined to the Malazans alone.

[Blind]

In BH, Corabb starts to swear by Dessembrae, obviously without knowing who he was (Leoman finds this very amusing). It could indicate that the worship of Dessembrae indeed exists outside the empire.