[ObsoleteResolve]

Hell, I'd say his shameless copying of Terry Brooks is even more shameful.

.david
-Sword of Shannara as a sword that is connected to the Truth and wielding it forces the person to face all the ugliness of themself?

[Joord]

Harold Bloom said:

I like your style of grammar! By chance are you an e.e. cummings fan?

Erikson may have first come across the idea of dimensional pathways from sword and sorcery writers like Karl Edward Wagner (Erikson cites Wagner as an influence.) I came across similar concepts when reading Wagner's The Dark Crusade which was published in 1976. Nine Princes of Amber by Roger Zelazny (another influence) also has similar concepts though not quite as similar as those of Wagner. Nine Princes of Amber was published back in 1970.

To go back even further, what about The Magician's Nephew or the works of Lewis Carroll?

Quote

I'm quite surprised no-ones mentioned China Mieville yet as an example of an author showing his beliefs without ruining his work (in my opinion).
He's strongly socialist (stood as a candidate for the British Socialist Part at the last elections, I believe), and you can tell so from his books, but he doesn't force it down the readers throat, and he certainly doesn't preach.

I'd have to disagree. I found Perdido Street Station to be such a political diatribe, that I couldn't bring myself to finish it. It was incredibly "preachy," in my opinion.

[Morgoth]

similarities? Ok.. what about the Aes Sedai vs the sisters of light? The sisters of light are basically red aja, and the sisters of dark are the perfect copy of the black aja.

[Werthead]

He. Well that happens in Tolkien too (Black Riders), although they are on their way out of the Shire when the attacks start. Doesn't that happen in The Sword of Shannara as well?

[Werthead]

I always saw the Ways (and to a lesser extent the Warrens' physical existence) as a fantasy take on hyperspace, a favourite SF device of many decades' standing. In D&D you could use interplanar travel for short cuts from one point in your starting to world to another part in the same world. That was laid out in the original Manual of the Planes, published around about 1980 I believe.

[peters63]

So Goodkind has a political message to preach, its a bit off the wall and he is a complete nutter....so what? I peronally enjoyed his series until Faith of the Fallen, which made me wretch with its anti communist, pro american message. But if that's what he wants to write about fine; it just means that he lost one more reader in me.

Getting back on topic, there is no reason why politics shouldn't be included in fantasy and in fact I am surprised it isn't even more. Writing reflects real life and people's experiences - even fantasy writing. I have generaly found that a person's politics reflects in their actions and thoughts and that writing is no different. For example, Tolkien, had a political message to make in his writing about noble elves, evil industry and the nobility of sacrifice by the working man. It doesn't make him a bad author, I just believe that everything comes down to politics in the end. (except Shakespeare - I absolutely refuse to believe that a superb, talented, pulp drama author, who wrote a play a week, thought that deep about each individual line of his plays - sorry rant over).

When I was younger I used to really like the Gor series of books. I found them exciting and a wee bit pervy. Now that I am older, I realise what a real pervy series they were but I still, even now, like the stories. I just skip or ignore the sad 'all women are slaves to service men' message Gorman preaches and concentrate on the story. Same with Goodkind.

[ObsoleteResolve]

I think the problem most people have with Goodkind is the combination of the over-abundance of his philosophy, to the point where the plot and the characterization is subverted completely to further solely the philosophy, and the absolute, overwhelming hubris of the man. He is, to be quite frank, an egotistical, arrogant moron.

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What I have done with my work has irrevocably changed the face of fantasy. In so doing I've raised the standards. I have not only injected thought into a tired empty genre, but, more importantly, I've transcended it showing what more it can be-and is so doing spread my readership to completely new groups who don't like and wont ready typical fantasy. Agents and editors are screaming for more books like mine.

So, yeah. The constant stroking of him of his own penis is what really disgusts people, when combined with everything else Each book reads like a masturbatory fantasy, "Ugh, ugh, yeah, you all, unnnhhhh, don't know anything, see, unnnggggg, I'm so smart, your... uhhhhhhh... all... uuughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... wrong... uuuuuuuuarrrrrrrrrrrhggggggggggggggggggggggggg!"



.david

[ObsoleteResolve]

Thank ya

But, yeah, that's my primary problem with Goodkind. Call me utilitarian in my approach to writing, but I think every other aspect (theme, symbolism, allusion, poetic writing) should be subservient to the one aspect: the story. And that's the major stone I throw at Mieville: I think he becomes a little too obsessed with the poetry and lets the plotting fall at the wayside. And it's probably why I like M. John Harrison: he has the poetry, but he keeps a firm grip on the plot. I think I have so much respect for people who can craft a well written, poetic line that works on many levels because, goddamn, I envy them. They make it look easy, and, with me, it's either some spur of the moment, late-night as-I-try-to-sleep type of thought, or it takes an assload of time :-/

Hell, Eriksons' "Midnight Tides" annoyed me at some points, with the constant carping on the evils of pure free-market capitalism, and I agree with the stance: it's just like, "Dude, look, man: you're showing it to us with the Indebted, with the problems the culture has. STOP TELLING US." But, he redeems it in that it's not like every damned word outta Tehols mouth is the evils of the system! But, it still remains tied for first in my favorite books in a long, long while list

.david
-Erikson also did the showing the problems in a way that was coherent. As opposed to simple expounding upon the principle. And he also ran counter to the whole problems with the culture, in showing how:

Midnight Tides Spoiler

Spoiler

Tehol was able to succeed through his own skill in the backstory. Of course, extremely abnormal genius, but, hey. It did show how people could succeed within the system.

[Brys]

I actually think Mieville has a much better grasp on plot than Harrison - to me it felt like Mieville's plot was generally pretty tight, while for Harrison, the plot was subservient to the setting and theme. The plot in the Pastel City or in In Viriconium weren't the main part of the novels at all IMO, but they were there to show the city itself, and emphasise the characters, and he was much more prone to less controlled poetical passages than Mieville. I always felt that with his novels the plot was hugely important - especially in the Scar, and the plot largely determined Perdido Street Station. Iron Council was a bit weaker in this respect, but it was an intentionally ideological book, and the plot and theme were inextricably linked in IC.

[Werthead]

I must confess I made the mistake (?) of once saying to Werewolf v.2 on another forum, "Hey, having some kind of Terry Goodkind unappreciation board would be funny," and his reply was, "Wait a second..." Then something beautiful (?) was born...