[Onos]

The only Jaghut remaining now and for the recent millenia are ones that are ascendant or nearly ascendant. (aka pretty powerful) Never thought of it that way before but there must have been a time of greater numbers with a lot of mundane Jaghuts running around many of which probably had little or no magical aptitude.

It IS possible the Jaghut had those cities when the KCCM arrived and then were enslaved, but more likely that they grew about the KCCM as slaves and continent by continent free themselves from KCCM oppression. (via various perfect storm things that resulted in KCCM demise) Then when the Jaghut were in cities the Imass were still running around mostly grunting and naked, til certain Jaghut tryrants started to 'civilize' them.

[GardenGnome]

I always thought that the Jaghut were, by and large, hermits who lived alone. This was because they could not even trust their own kin - or their own people. This is reflected in the MoI prolouge, where Kilana hope that no grown Jaghut come across the children, as he/she might just as well kill them than adopt them. When Scabandari says the Jaghut are few and scattered, and thus discards them, it's only further proof of his vanity and ignorance - solitude was the prefered way for the Jaghut.

Duiker and List talk about how the Jaghut war in 7C was a great exception, as both mate and children came back to fight with the mother, when the T'lan Imass attacked, and that this happened because she was special.
Then, as a counter-point, you have the two Jaghut on the Jagh Odan, who are clearly friends, despite any bloodlink. Then again, the one chained to the Azath ground by the spear/tree wouldn't pose much threat for the other Jaghut, and I presume they found mutual advantages in their friendship, overruling the (smaller) danger.

Onos: About Jaghut ascending: I somehow has the idea that ascendancy is a "newer" thing, and the elder races never ascended. Maybe because of how the warrens were shaped (presumably) later, or that the Elder Gods wouldn't allow for a secondary pantheon (the natural extension of Ascendany). Any other thoughts on this?

Edit: Uhh, I thought I was in a completely different thread, and thus most of my post is irrelevant...

[tiam]

Onos- yeh that makes sense. They were slaves and likely took advanatge of the KCCM/NR civil wars. A people warring within itself cannot concentrate on foreign enemies. Also as to ascendents JAghuts i agree with gnome seems a recent thing (ie first empire). Jaghuts and the other elder races live very long anyway so ascendency holds very little benifits. I actually thought all elder races were virtually ascendnets anyway. Also we see a normal jaghut in the MOI prologue. The woman escaping with her kids.

Gnome- Yeh i agree they were hermits but there must have been cities at one point. In GOTM (apparently i cant remember as ive lent someone mine so correct me if im wrong) it shws Raests POV with his mother at market day. So they did have cities at first then grew fearful of their own kind. This was probably when they discovered that their rage was so volatile.

[Onos]

Ascendency isnt really a choice. I thought it came with either worshippers or prolonged power etc (generalising a bit here but the point...) Not sure why the Jaghut wouldnt ascend. Yeah, due to their life span i would see them more likely too ascend, even though they dont as such need to. Also most think Hood is a Jaghut. And Poliel was a FA.... (KCCM only worship the queens) So i am not sure why the Jaghut would have a whole set of their own laws.

I should have said 'ascendents' and not ascendents when referring to them initially in my first post, since i was more referring to those who had more power vs just the run of the mill Jaghut which i assume existed.

[tiam]

Yes the jaghuts we see in the present are all virtually ascendents. SO ye i agree they do count as being ascended and show all the marks (Powerful long lived etc.

Also although pliel showed FA traits (androgynous ?) she had taloned feet like a KCCM. Maybe some sort of hybrid?

[Wampyry]

Kilmandaros. Didn't she attack Rake while he was helping her clean up SE?
She then lied and said he attacked her. She also cheats her son in the game of bones. Lying, cheating and sneaky hardly attributes one associates with Justice. Whoever, she is I love her attitude. One of my favorite characters

[Zanth13]

The impression I got was that the "kid" was cheating her, ie keeping her mind occupied so she didnt think about dragons or scabby or something along those lines. I imagine to keep her from hulking out, it seems like killy is a little worse for wear in the mental department....

And wasnt that a FA keeping watch of her?? doesnt that pretty much guarantee that the FA are her children.

[Aptorian]

xanth13;207143 said:

The impression I got was that the "kid" was cheating her, ie keeping her mind occupied so she didnt think about dragons or scabby or something along those lines. I imagine to keep her from hulking out, it seems like killy is a little worse for wear in the mental department....

And wasnt that a FA keeping watch of her?? doesnt that pretty much guarantee that the FA are her children.

Think of it like her being under a powerfull spell Knuckles made. Remember, Knuckles is an old god/ascendant of the Lether/first empire days. All though we don't know what his deal is, I don't doubt he could get away with keeping Killy in check.

From what she blurted out before knuckles could stop her it sounded like she is the FA mother, but it's more probable that Knuckles is "merely" the guardian of the SeaAzath.

Also note how precarious the whole thing seemed, it only just works, any disrubtion and Killy could wake to full conciousness. All in all I found it very ancient mythology'ish, the lesser being tricking the greater god.

[Veilside]

Abyss;109677 said:

Also interesting was the similarity in description of Kil's colouring, like Mael's in the MT prologue, with one colour (red/blue) on the extremities fading up the limbs.

Could just be a huge amount of bruising from having punched her way through a few dragons. :confused:

[Shurque's biatch]

I was thinking that maybe Killy was being distracted from trying to clean up the mess with Burn in the same way she "cleaned up" with Rake before?

Maybe she is looking at the mess very simply as "Burn should be roused to shake off bad CG" and she is being kept at bay till the others can work on plan B more?

I know it is a bit of a stretch, but she does have mighty large, uh, tracts of land. I mean fists...

[Lisheo]

I agree wit shurques bitch, it probably would be a case of "Grr, stupid sleeping goddess... HULK SMASH!!!!" lmao.
Knuckles himself is probably Elder, and none of the Elders seem to have more power than another, but considering hes an Azath guardian, maybe that gives him an upgrade allowing him to keep Killy contained? Sounds like the kinda thing the Azath would do.