[vaiski]

vaiski;106766 said:

Not sure though, I'll check it when I get back to home.

Well the book says: 'Had I, human, this would not be your last day this side of Hood's gate.'

So, Andarist doesn't include himself there. Admittedly not a proof to one direction or the other.. but enough to have me doubting.

[kayjin2]

Hood does not gather every soul on the Malazan world. The Elder races existed before Hood so they had their own system long before Hood arose. I will admit that Hood might have a bit of a claim on them but it is not absolute. Too many people escape Hood e.g. Bridgeburners, Crimson Guard etc.

The Bluerose are said to be remanents of the Andii that survived the Betrayal of Shadow. Enough Andii blood remains for them to be tall and similar to the Edur but much finer boned and some of them are obviously long lived because in MT, Seren said that she had a Bluerose lover who acted like he had seen it all. The main thing that affects the Andii is their long life and their experience and I think that even though the blood might have thinned there are still some pure bloods out there. The life expectancy of the Andii has not been stated outright. Andarist himself although not an outright powerful Ascendant was still very old. A Son of Mother Dark, meaning he was around a long, long, long time. Rake is even older then him but his Ascendancy has made him fit and hale, although his power might have diminished(In GotM it is said by a Crimson Guard Member that he is not as far away as he once was).

In MT, Silchas Ruin's group was fleeing from the Civil Wars that plagued Kurald Galain. Civil war occurs among one people and although it might have meant a war with the Liosan, there is a possibility that there were other Andii who did not follow any Son of Mother Dark. Those Andii might have been more than a bit passionate about punishing their enemies.

Who were the Andii who pursued Trull's people? Who sent them and when they were destroyed did someone note it? There has to be someone in KG, good or bad. Andii? Edur? Liosan? or unknown. And Mother Dark is not so far away. Silchas spoke about her in MT.

Silchas did not outrightly defy Mother Dark like Rake, he was not cast out like Andarist, he chose his path for good or for ill. It did not turn out well but what comes thorough is that Silchas cared for his people and he tried to make up for Rake's mistakes.

In TBH he is said to be the most enigmatic and that he was trying to mitigate the situation in KG. In MT it said he would have accepted the burden of godhood had he been given the chance. There were other Andii and given that Rake is a reluctant god/doesn't want it, Silchas would have accepted that role. But he did not get it so who got it. The Black Winged Lord...hardly and the true deity of the Andii is and will always be Mother Dark. Rake for all his faults still worships darkness. See GotM when he fought that demon lord...

"To the Mother's regret, was Light granted Birth. To her dismay she saw too late it's corruption. Galayn you are the unintended victim to punishment long overdue"

I'm saying a lot of stuff in a weird way...Sorry

[tiam]

vaiski;106707 said:

Don't have books with me now, but I recall that in HoC Andarist says to Cutter that if he possessed a singular will, they (I took it to mean Andarist as well) would not be going through Hood's Gates later.. haven't really given it much thought, I just figured that in the end Andii are Hood's like everyone else.. maybe it has to with where they die? (If in Wu -> Hood, with few exceptions.. such as big black swords and all that)



I think she said that children arrive rarely, as much a product of boredom as anything else. So, arrive = be born, not to escape from anywhere (well, womb perhaps.. ah I really shouldn't be writing at these hours )

If you read that passgae or have a page number it will make more sense what i mean.

[vaiski]

tiam;106835 said:

If you read that passgae or have a page number it will make more sense what i mean.

p. 524 MoI MMPB:

'I assumed you were mated to another Tiste Andii - a union no doubt centuries long -'
'And what would be the point of such a union?'
He frowned, startled. 'Well, uh, companionship? Children?'
'Children arrive. Rarely, as much a product of boredom as anything else.'

[kayjin2]

How can I rename this thread, I spelt Tiste without a T

[tiam]

vaiski;106840 said:

p. 524 MoI MMPB:

'I assumed you were mated to another Tiste Andii - a union no doubt centuries long -'
'And what would be the point of such a union?'
He frowned, startled. 'Well, uh, companionship? Children?'
'Children arrive. Rarely, as much a product of boredom as anything else.'

yeh the bit just after that vaiski

[vaiski]

Ah that yep. I never took it to mean an Andii literally leaving KG and foraying into the Wu, but more like an Andii already in Wu seeking escape from his or her melancholic life by, for instance, taking a mortal lover.

[Kage-za]

kayjin2;106824 said:

The main thing that affects the Andii is their long life and their experience and I think that even though the blood might have thinned there are still some pure bloods out there. The life expectancy of the Andii has not been stated outright. Andarist himself although not an outright powerful Ascendant was still very old. A Son of Mother Dark, meaning he was around a long, long, long time. Rake is even older then him but his Ascendancy has made him fit and hale, although his power might have diminished(In GotM it is said by a Crimson Guard Member that he is not as far away as he once was).

Just to be pedantic, in Rake's case, Andarist claims that his brother's elient blood is what keeps from aging. He asks Cutter, "Does [Rake] renew his claims to the blood of the Tiste Andii? Has he renounced his Draconian blood?... Does he appear as an old man--older than me?" (HoC tpb p. 318).

So this means Andii can grow old and potentially die of old age, though dragons probably don't (or live even longer). It is hard to tell if his claims that Rake no longer claims to be Andii are just bitterness.

[Onos]

I still dont think the Edur and Andii interbreed. The Edur are brainwashed pretty good, so bringing a half Edur child into their inner circle would invite betrayal. If they were mixed how did they get the children? I supposed get pregnant and then take off then and there, but that would get susupicious since i doubt pregnant Edur are sent off hunting on the icefields, and the father would have a interest in the child.

Anyway i still believe that they use only die on their skin.

[Dark Mac]

Kage-za;107000 said:

Just to be pedantic, in Rake's case, Andarist claims that his brother's elient blood is what keeps from aging. He asks Cutter, "Does [Rake] renew his claims to the blood of the Tiste Andii? Has he renounced his Draconian blood?... Does he appear as an old man--older than me?" (HoC tpb p. 318).

So this means Andii can grow old and potentially die of old age, though dragons probably don't (or live even longer). It is hard to tell if his claims that Rake no longer claims to be Andii are just bitterness.

Regardless of whether Tiste Andii grow old, Ascendants don't. Since Rake is certainly an Ascendant, I don't see why he should be expected to age.

[fan_83]

perhaps andarist does not know of the ascension of rake or more importantly, he confuse the giving up of all of his powers with the effect of the blood of teh eleint..

andarist may not have experience wit htohers giving up their powers and thus assume that rake is young due to the eleint blood instead of the process of ascension
after all ascension is a Wu concept and andarist gave up his powers just before or right after coming to Wu

[Dolorous Menhir]

Ahn tells Trull he is an Edur/Andii mixed-breed.

[kayjin2]

Ascendancy is not necessarily a Malzan World concept and among the Tiste there have always been champions. Rake, Silchas, Osric and Bloodeye. The most powerful beings of their respective races and thus elevated to a level above any other. The Edur had a royal family and Bloodeye murdered them using his own strength and he then took the leadership of the Edur. They later elavated him to godhood/Ascendancy. Silchas also could have been a god worshipped by the Andii, and as far as we know Rake is worshipped by The Bluerose people and maybe even some others who we don't know about.

The overriding theme among the Tiste is their ultimate deities, so to speak. Mother Dark for the Andii, Father Light for the Liosan and ?????????? for the Edur(might not have one) so for them I think Ascendancy for them means being a demigod. Rake, Andarist and Silchas are the Sons of Mother Dark, Osric is the Son of Father Light...Bloodeye is ?????????. The ties are obvious.

Anyway... The Andii are not extinct and in the True Kurald Galain you could find that there are some who have kept themselves purposely isolated, like the Liosan. Gathering power and wating for the right time. Ahn said that the war was still going on unchecked so somewhere there are people fighting and if there is new Andii Ascendant(A being of great power) than Silchas is around and there might be some other Soletaken Eleint's(plural because of GotM) running around.

In MT Ahn's mother was a Bluerose slave, so the Edur are too stupid/ignorant to know that Andii have survived so Ahn's parentage has always been mixed. It's just that the whole spy thing was introduced in TBH to deepen his story.

"Anomander Rake, the Black Winged Lord dwells at the Gates of Darkness"

Oh and Rake is not afflicted with his peoples(his followers) apathy and given the right motivation he might open a big can of Eleint whopa** on the Malazan World.

"They will forge alliances, they will war agains't us".
Anomandaris shrugged "I've got nothing better to do today"

[kayjin2]

That was established in MT. Trull knew that Ahn's mother was a Bluerose slave. Ahn also told him about Bluerose in what was a very good scene in MT. The backstory of Ahn added in MT is weird but the character is gone anyway. Silchas however is still around and he might not abandon the Bluerose Andii seeing as he led their forefathers. Silchas comes off as having good intentions and in the Tapestry he tried to mitigate the circumstances in KG. Andarist's exile, Rake's departure. The youngest but the one who seemed to care the most. Also Mother Dark at some point has communicated to him and unless SE changes that(using a writers convinience), I will continue to think that Silchas will have a role in Bluerose and maybe the Andii in KG.

Main question...The possibility exists that there are Andii in KG. They will have been the victors in the civil wars and they will have rebuilt KG. Remember some Andii in the Malazan world hold that they were cast out and if that is true by whom.

Kurald Emurlahn is in piesces, Kurald Thyrllan/Liosan is inhabited by the Liosan and they clearly are isolated. So how could there not be remanents of Andii in Kurald Galain.

Among all the warrens I count the True KG as the most powerful next to SD. The twin chambers of K'ruls heart(Source of Warrens) are SD and KG so that counts for something. The Andii in KG would then be very powerful.

On Kallor's signature, who do you think would forge alliances against the Andii. Maybe in Reapers Gale more of the Tiste history will be revealed.

[tiam]

fan_83;107052 said:

perhaps andarist does not know of the ascension of rake or more importantly, he confuse the giving up of all of his powers with the effect of the blood of teh eleint..

andarist may not have experience wit htohers giving up their powers and thus assume that rake is young due to the eleint blood instead of the process of ascension
after all ascension is a Wu concept and andarist gave up his powers just before or right after coming to Wu

I think Rake was born an ascendent. So was Scabby and Osric. So likely andarist gave up his magical capabilites and maybe he had soletaken blood but has renounced it. Thereforee giving up his power. ALso Rake is older than Darist so i dont think he thinks rake is young.

I think Darist just renounced his soletaken blood. This makes him look old but i dont think he can die.

[Onos]

I believe Scabby ascended due to his actions in bettering himself. (killing royal family, maybe drinking draconian blood) Rake and Osric i think are more likely to have been born near ascension.

Of Ahn's history of Bluerose slave mother... is that proven or just his story used as a cover. If i were in his situation i would be making that part up too. (and technically he wasnt lying, since his mother was from Bluerose) I put more weight into Ahn's info in TBH over MT)

[Kage-za]

tiam;107163 said:

I think Rake was born an ascendent. So was Scabby and Osric. So likely andarist gave up his magical capabilites and maybe he had soletaken blood but has renounced it. Thereforee giving up his power. ALso Rake is older than Darist so i dont think he thinks rake is young.

I think Darist just renounced his soletaken blood. This makes him look old but i dont think he can die.

Is there any evidence that Darist ever drank Elient blood and became soletaken? I thought only Rake, Silchas, and Bloodeye did.

[tiam]

No i admit theres no evidence but i cant see how he would renounce his power. He couldnt willingly give up magical power as in mage capabilities. Also heclaims that Rake can renounce his soletaken blood so i just thought maybe thats what darist did and thats why hes lost his power. I admit that its specualtion but it makes sense. He says has Rake renounced his blood and then seems angry when he hasnt so it seems likely he has.

[kayjin2]

I don't think it is just Draconic blood that gives any Tiste power. There is a racial access to the respective Warrens that at it's basic form means that any Tiste can or has the potential to access their respective warren. But just as human have mages so too do the Tiste. The Draconic blood increases a person's power but it doesnt necessarily mean they are powerless. ANdarist might have surrendred the racial power as well. HIs departure from Kurald Galain was not easy and Scanbandari had a hand in his decrease in power so just renouncing his draconic blood might not be the only reason for his loss in power.

According to the tapestry Rake left Kurald Galain and Mother Dark because of the injustice done to Andarist but in HoC it is clear that the relationship between the brothers is strained so what caused it to be so.

Could Silchas or Andarist have children? Could any offspring possibly be in KG. I think it is probable. KG can't be empty. Mother Dark might not be as far away as it seems and for her not to have a role seeing as she is The Mother who Birthed All seems unlikely. A war is coming and in a war you need an army or warriors. SO Darkness must have an army. Mother Dark is active. Oh and I think Mother Dark has her own plans. She withdrew from the Tiste Andii when they cursed her but that does not mean she will stay away and in all this where is Father Light. Kurald Thyrllan is having problems and it might just get invaded by anyon with a powerful army.

Any thoughts etc