[kayjin2]

Amongst all the different races in the Malazan world the Tiste Andii rank as my favorite. In Gardens of the Moon, they were presented as a small group of people, who were alien to the realm and who had a tragic past.

In Rake's talk's with Baruk he gave a picture of how the Andii on Moon's lived. We were given a more concentrated look at an Andii in Memories of Ice (Korlat) but not any history. The Andii on Drift Avalii were mentioned and it was said how they were spawn of Anomander Rake. In House of Chains, Andarist was introduced and he revelaed his personal opinions and a bit of his relationship with Anomander. Before Midnight Tides we only had a small picture but in the prologue we were introduced to the Silchas and his army.

400000 Andii. An impressive figure, meaning that there was at one time a large number of Tiste Andii. The apathy of the Andii was the first thing we were shown about them as a people but when you think about it they were not always that way. They had armies, they had three Ascendants(although Andarist was depowered) leading them and of course they were Mother Dark's First Children. They had dreams, goals, enemies everything. So where did all that go.

In The Bonehunters we finally get a good piece of the history. The Tapestry in Bluerose. That part is basically (for me) the best part in the book. Another thing was what Andalath said at the end. She said what is to come perhaps belongs to the Andii more than wnyone else. So what could it mean.

Here's how I see it. The full unveiling on Genabackis has given (Rake's) Andii a permanent presence on the world but what if it was more than that. What if that full unveiling manifested a gate to The True Kurald Galain. Bloodeye said that they were escaping the wars that beset Kurald Galain. What if the victors of that war are still in Kurald Galain and now they have access to the Malazan World. Could they have an Ascendant leader ready to venture into across realms and take the Tiste Andii to the glory they once had.

More to say but I've said too much. Let's get this thread started... Oh and read Kallor's signature... it sounds promising.

[Ivan the terrible]

In The Bonehunters we finally get a good piece of the history. The Tapestry in Bluerose. That part is basically (for me) the best part in the book. Another thing was what Andalath said at the end. She said what is to come perhaps belongs to the Andii more than wnyone else. So what could it mean.


I can't remember this what happened?

[Agraba]

Well it was actually just Ahlrada's inner monologue, explaining to us that the Bluerose Tiste Andii (himself among them) have been living in underground caves, hiding from the Edur in secret civilizations ever since the great betrayal. Also, that he is one of them, and he has a skin dye that makes him look a little more grey. Although we already knew about the Bluerose Andii from MT, I guess BH revealed that Ahlrada was one of them.

Quote

The apathy of the Andii was the first thing we were shown about them as a people but when you think about it they were not always that way. They had armies, they had three Ascendants(although Andarist was depowered) leading them and of course they were Mother Dark's First Children. They had dreams, goals, enemies everything. So where did all that go.

It probably comes with living for a really really long time. Look at the T'lan Imass. Before, they were headstrong and determined to wipe out a powerful race, but now all they care about is to stop existing. I'll bet, given the chance, Anomander Rake would accept oblivion in a second.

[Onos]

Bluerose is interesting to me cause those Andii didnt seem totally despondant. They WANTED to live and survive. (or so i think) Rake's Andii on the other hand couldnt much care if they lived or died.

Good thoughts... what pushed some Andii to 'break' and some not to, and can their 'slide' be reversed?

I wouldnt bet on Andii Armies emerging from KG. (if such a thing existed i am not sure anything on WU could stop it be it Seguleh or Teblor or Edur) I think it is more Andii setting the past right and emerging from the Edur shadow.

I actually stopped my reread last night at the exact point where Andalath makes that comment. Certainly didnt get it on my first read, but i assume things are going to get ugly down in Lether.

How will Rake, Silchas, the Bluerose Andii, the Drift Andii and Rake's Andii fit together. Those 5 groups have a lot of tension just between them...

[Dolorous Menhir]

Are you talking about Sandalath, Korlat's mother, when you say Andalath?

The Andii lost their way when they broke from Mother Dark. Or at least, Rake's faction - those we have seen - "fell" as a result of that. If you can't remember, Rake's group was expelled/self-exiled from KG because they disapproved of the creation of the Tiste Liosan. As far as I'm concerned the apathy of the race dates from then.

Are the Bluerose Andii survivors of Ruin's party of Andii? I don't know how, but I guess some survived the betrayal by Scabby. Also, they are not pure-bloods, so perhaps we can't expect the same behaviour from them.

Ahn was not using skin-dye to appear more Edur, he's an Edur/Andii cross-breed, as he related to Trull during the military campaign in MT.

There are no more Andii on Drift Avalii, they all left with Withal and Sandalath, and they were just a part of Rake's faction.

[kayjin2]

Yes, Silchas is still around. You can't count him out just yet and also in MT, he spoke about Mother Dark and how she did not forget. Although in BH, they say that she turned her back on Andarist which reveals that Mother Dark was not innocent. By that I mean that in the books she is always a victim of circumstance, attack etc. Also in MT Bloodeye says that Anomandaris Irake broke with his Mother although we did not find out until now.

An army is not so far fetched. It would probably be very strong because The Andii are strong. They have Sorcerers instead of warrior priests(Liosan) or warlocks(Edur) and the Full unveling in MoI was done by all the Andii in Moonspawn.

In BH the Dragons were attacked by Andii and although it is said/implied that Rake imprisoned them, they did say that they regretted that the Andii who invaded the Shadow Realm were so through in their destruction, meaning that they were unable to stop them.

Oh and can you see a Kurald Andii.

I'm saying a lot.

...The true Kurald Galain must be really powerfull. An army drawing upon that power could devastate the world.

For Kurald Galain to be completely empty(no survivors from it's Civil Wars) is a bit hard to believe, so there must be someone there and the Full unveiling might be the signal to attack. Or the beacon that will cause the attention of those in Kurald Galain to turn to the Malaz world and bring their ancient war back into the forefront.

[kayjin2]

Ahn said the war of the Tiste still raged so does that mean, somewhere there are Tiste fighting. The Liosan shown so far are loyal to Osric but the Andii are divided. The ones we met s far follow Rake and the others(a large number) followed Silchas, to their ruin. So another faction might not have followed any of Mother Darks Sons.

The Andii on Drift Avalii weree not many and they were related to Rake. Andarist's mentioned that Rake should appear to be older. The Andii miht be long lived but they are not immortal and seeing as they came from another realm can Hood have a claim to their souls. I would like to think that Andarist and the others return to Kurald Galain because although death is a given for all but it is not synonymous with Hood. So who claims their souls.

The Andii are not the only long lived species but the difference is that they have the longest history. With the full unveiling they have tied themselves to the Malaz world and if threatened don't you think they would fight.

[Onos]

Dolorous:

"Andalath" (may or may not be correct was simply using the spelling before my post) refers to Withers Andii GF quoted at end of TBH. (so probably Sandalath)

Bluerose are a variety or Survivors from Silchas' group. The old, the young, random survivors that were protected by the 4 original wizards of the Onxy Order.

I think the notion that they are not purebloods is incorrect. That is hinted in MT but may be a myth propogated by the Andii to make them not seem a threat. If we go by what Ahn says in TBH my impression is they are still a cohesive mostly pure group.

Ahn was using dye, and what he told Trull was simply a lie. The Andii have infiltrated the Edur to keep an eye on them. (again as per TBH Ahn conversations)

[tiam]

kayjin2;106562 said:

Amongst all the different races in the Malazan world the Tiste Andii rank as my favorite. In Gardens of the Moon, they were presented as a small group of people, who were alien to the realm and who had a tragic past.

In Rake's talk's with Baruk he gave a picture of how the Andii on Moon's lived. We were given a more concentrated look at an Andii in Memories of Ice (Korlat) but not any history. The Andii on Drift Avalii were mentioned and it was said how they were spawn of Anomander Rake. In House of Chains, Andarist was introduced and he revelaed his personal opinions and a bit of his relationship with Anomander. Before Midnight Tides we only had a small picture but in the prologue we were introduced to the Silchas and his army.

400000 Andii. An impressive figure, meaning that there was at one time a large number of Tiste Andii. The apathy of the Andii was the first thing we were shown about them as a people but when you think about it they were not always that way. They had armies, they had three Ascendants(although Andarist was depowered) leading them and of course they were Mother Dark's First Children. They had dreams, goals, enemies everything. So where did all that go.

In The Bonehunters we finally get a good piece of the history. The Tapestry in Bluerose. That part is basically (for me) the best part in the book. Another thing was what Andalath said at the end. She said what is to come perhaps belongs to the Andii more than wnyone else. So what could it mean.

Here's how I see it. The full unveiling on Genabackis has given (Rake's) Andii a permanent presence on the world but what if it was more than that. What if that full unveiling manifested a gate to The True Kurald Galain. Bloodeye said that they were escaping the wars that beset Kurald Galain. What if the victors of that war are still in Kurald Galain and now they have access to the Malazan World. Could they have an Ascendant leader ready to venture into across realms and take the Tiste Andii to the glory they once had.

More to say but I've said too much. Let's get this thread started... Oh and read Kallor's signature... it sounds promising.

In MOI when WJ says that Korlat may have had a mate with a century long relationship. When Korlat then talks about children arriving to escape from something WJ stops her but its clear that Korlat was emotional and reluctant to say sumthing about this. Therefore its likely there are still andii in KG arribing when they tired of their home realm. If anyone has a page reference for this it will make it more clear as to what im on about. Neway...

As for the andii being concerned with whats to come it seems likely given the involvement of the tiste edur there will be another war beetween the andii and the edur. I dont think ne1 is concerned with the liosan due to there isolationist attitudes. Also your mistaken about what warren they were escaping from i think. The Edur were leaving the rivening of KE and had Andii allies. The andii followed Ruin because he was there god whereas Rake was reluctant to be a god.

Also what youve said doesntmake sense. Why would 400 000 andii and also Ruin leave KG to escape war only to run into the last enclave of KCCM. If they were leaving it was likely because they lost. Therefore there would be no ascendent coming to take the andii to glory rather to annihilate them. Also all the andii ascendents are accounted for. Also i think the andii can leave KG whenver they want.

Also Onos- alrahda Ahn states that the nobility of the Blue rose possess Andii blood in MT

[vaiski]

kayjin2;106661 said:

I would like to think that Andarist and the others return to Kurald Galain because although death is a given for all but it is not synonymous with Hood. So who claims their souls.

Don't have books with me now, but I recall that in HoC Andarist says to Cutter that if he possessed a singular will, they (I took it to mean Andarist as well) would not be going through Hood's Gates later.. haven't really given it much thought, I just figured that in the end Andii are Hood's like everyone else.. maybe it has to with where they die? (If in Wu -> Hood, with few exceptions.. such as big black swords and all that)

tiam;106680 said:

In MOI when WJ says that Korlat may have had a mate with a century long relationship. When Korlat then talks about children arriving to escape from something WJ stops her but its clear that Korlat was emotional and reluctant to say sumthing about this. Therefore its likely there are still andii in KG arribing when they tired of their home realm. If anyone has a page reference for this it will make it more clear as to what im on about. Neway...

I think she said that children arrive rarely, as much a product of boredom as anything else. So, arrive = be born, not to escape from anywhere (well, womb perhaps.. ah I really shouldn't be writing at these hours )

[Dolorous Menhir]

vaiski;106707 said:

Don't have books with me now, but I recall that in HoC Andarist says to Cutter that if he possessed a singular will, they (I took it to mean Andarist as well) would not be going through Hood's Gates later..

He was talking about the sword, Vengeance, if it was wielded by someone with a singular will then that person would be unbeatable. Andarist knew he lacked that will, and so expected defeat. It's nothing to do with Hood or death. It was about the sword.

edit:

Onos;106669 said:

Ahn was using dye, and what he told Trull was simply a lie. The Andii have infiltrated the Edur to keep an eye on them. (again as per TBH Ahn conversations)

Pretty sure he's a mixed breed, which makes him useful as a spy. Do you have a quote for this dye business, because seriously, he's of mixed Andii/Edur heritage. As are all the Bluerose, they are no longer pure Tiste Andii.

[vaiski]

Dolorous Menhir;106747 said:

He was talking about the sword, Vengeance, if it was wielded by someone with a singular will then that person would be unbeatable. Andarist knew he lacked that will, and so expected defeat. It's nothing to do with Hood or death. It was about the sword.

I know. Idea is, that Andarist thought they'd all die and go through Hood's Gates. Himself included.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Did he talk about Hood's Gates? When Corlo and Seren Padec visited KG it was full of dead Andii (if I remember correctly they spoke with Sandalath), perhaps they go there rather than Hood's Gate.

The Tiste Andii are older than Hood. So they must have an alternate system of death.

[vaiski]

I'm pretty sure he did mention Hood's Gates. What I'm not sure is whether he meant that only for Cutter or did he mean himself and other Andii as well.
As for the KG and dead Andiis, maybe they all do go there or maybe it's dependant on where they die/when they have died. :confused:

Edit: Okay now that I stretch my memory, I think Andarist said something like: If I had a singular will you wouldn't be going through Hood's Gates today.
Not sure though, I'll check it when I get back to home.

[Dolorous Menhir]

I don't think Hood has any jurisdiction over Elder races like the Tiste Andii.

None of the dead Andii we've seen (Sandalath & cronies in KG, Wither) have been behind Hood's Gates.

[Agraba]

Hood had no jurisdiction in the Lether continent until recently, I think. Therefore, anyone dying in Lether didn't really go to Hood.

Hedge told Paran that before Hood's Gate, the realm they were travelling in (to get to the Nascent) was where dead souls went. So saying that the Andii are older than Hood is just like saying that death is older than Hood, which is true. Remember that DG talks alot about spirits that just used to go back to the earth before Hood came around. But Hood learned the trade of soul hoarding, so I'm pretty sure that any Tiste Andii dying on Wu (and not in Lether) would end up with Hood.

Hood had monopoly for a while, excluding small exceptions like Rake's sword, but now I think other forces are learning the soul-gathering trade and will compete with Hood (like Karsa).

I don't feel like pulling the bonehunters, but I thoroughly remember Ahlrada mentioning that he dyed his skin. But I don't remember it being mentioned that the Bluerose are mixed Edur and Andii.

[Illuyankas]

I'm pretty sure the Bluerose are Andii remnants, with certain infiltrators going in and reproducing with the Edur so that they are mostly Andii but sufficently Edur to fool the rest of them, with the skin bleach aiding in the disguise. But I'm sure only the infiltrators are Edur/Andii.

[Folken]

Illuyankas;106809 said:

I'm pretty sure the Bluerose are Andii remnants, with certain infiltrators going in and reproducing with the Edur so that they are mostly Andii but sufficently Edur to fool the rest of them, with the skin bleach aiding in the disguise. But I'm sure only the infiltrators are Edur/Andii.

what illy said. generations before ahlarda dyed their skin, but the newer ones had no need as they were suffeciently mixed in iirc

[jwolfbro]

Except that the Gral with Icarium point out that Ahlrada is using a dye to blend in with the Edur.