[Aptorian]

Keeping to the lore, my answer could be that Tool hasn't been fighting for 300.00 years. Sometimes the T'lan Imass just lie around as dust for millenia or even much longer. Sometimes they just stand around and watch events unfold. That said I think Tool was already first sword before the ritual, so yeah he should be pretty awesome.

If you step outside the lore, then I think you have to remember that it's just fantasy. In a hundred thousand years, logically, a lot of things in the Malaz world should have been very much different, let alone 500.000 years. Don't think too much about it.

EDIT: Oh, and welcome to the forums

[Mane of Chaos]

I'd just like to bring up something that has a lot to do with this topic. I remember that in GotM K'rul said to Raest that Tool could kill him without any difficulty. However, in MoI Tool cannot defeat even Mok, the Third Seguleh. I consider Raest more powerful than Mok. So, is this a GotM-ism?
As Apt has said, things change. And Tool too might be limited in perfecting his fighting skills. But the most important point is that, as Tool himself has stated, the time of the T'lan Imass has passed and the time of humans has come. So it is plausible that Mok, or a better human swordmaster, should be able to defeat Tool.

[SiriusL]

Mane of Chaos said:

I'd just like to bring up something that has a lot to do with this topic. I remember that in GotM K'rul said to Raest that Tool could kill him without any difficulty. However, in MoI Tool cannot defeat even Mok, the Third Seguleh. I consider Raest more powerful than Mok. So, is this a GotM-ism?
As Apt has said, things change. And Tool too might be limited in perfecting his fighting skills. But the most important point is that, as Tool himself has stated, the time of the T'lan Imass has passed and the time of humans has come. So it is plausible that Mok, or a better human swordmaster, should be able to defeat Tool.

The other issue I see is that the Seguleh fight all the time. Their whole lives are based on the hierarchy of the sword, so you have not only experience, but genetics at play. By that I mean that there is an artificial selection pressure toward the most genetically able sword fighter.

Time != experience, IMO, not directly, anyway. Remember that the Thenul (right?...the inferior one of the three) was already incredibly good, and he was only fourteen years old.

[Aptorian]

Mane of Chaos said:

I'd just like to bring up something that has a lot to do with this topic. I remember that in GotM K'rul said to Raest that Tool could kill him without any difficulty. However, in MoI Tool cannot defeat even Mok, the Third Seguleh. I consider Raest more powerful than Mok. So, is this a GotM-ism?

Funny that you caught that one. I just read GotM and, yeah, Tool seemed very powerful in that description.

If you remember, in GotM it's also mentioned that all T'lan Imass have an enormous Telan warren that they can spread out around themselves, deadning other mages powers. I found that very overpowered compared to the T'lan Imass we hear about in the other books.

[Trotts]

Or maybe Mok is just incredibly strong. There are examples in further books of warriors wielding basic weapons, with no magic, holding their own against powerful characters.

[Aptorian]

But, Imass have superhuman strength. In GotM you here of Tool lifting a barghast straight into the air by the ankle, when he emerges from the ground. Like stormy does with pearl.

[Mane of Chaos]

GotM-isms will most certainly always haunt us and SE. I loved the book, but there are so many inconsistencies in the series stemming from GotM, that I am at times very confused about some issues.

[Dark Mac]

Mane of Chaos said:

I'd just like to bring up something that has a lot to do with this topic. I remember that in GotM K'rul said to Raest that Tool could kill him without any difficulty. However, in MoI Tool cannot defeat even Mok, the Third Seguleh. I consider Raest more powerful than Mok. So, is this a GotM-ism?

Well, in MoI we see that Tool beat Kilava, and Kilava's strong enough to beat Pannion, who's likely just as strong as Raest. He was able to beat Kilava even before the Ritual, too, so obviously being First Sword has its advantages.

However, in the scene you're talking about, I saw the Dream as a place where Raest couldn't use his powers, so it would just be Tool's martial abilities against Raest's, and I very much doubt that Raest is any good with a sword.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Tool totalled Raest's old body with his sword, that's why he moved into Mammot. It's clear that, at least in Kruppe's dream, Tool was Raest's superior. As was Kruppe, and likely anyone else.

It might be more instructive to consider Tool's conversations with Lorn as they pursued the quest to free Raest. When Tool did not know the identity of their target he was blithe, not bothered. He didn't seem fussed about letting an unidentified Tyrant free. But as he worked his way into the chamber to free Raest, he realised who he was dealing with and became distressed. Does this not suggest that Tool was threatened by Raest?

I think, had they faced each other on more even ground (ie not in the mind of someone well-disposed to Tool), Raest would have won easily. Stated differently:

Five Dragons > Tool

[Lord of Salvation]

Well a question for you all. Does warfare adapt through the ages and become more deadly?

simple answer you should all agree with, otherwise you are delusional is YES.

So you have an individual who is at the very top tier among his species, Tool. His skills can only go so far since his bone and muscle structure are limited to the rigors forced upon his ancestors which have a bearing in their decendants. Hence Tool could only progress so far since his race did not pride themselves on Swordsmanship.

Granted they did progress somewhat while fighting the Jagut but predominantly those battles were decided by Boncasters and even projectiles.

Taking into account the history of the Imass they did not strenuously push their kin in the art of the sword. And here you have Tool who is a somewhat squat individual, he is not the tallest man nor does he have a long reach.

But you say his bulk is an additive to his strength, so here you have someone who power and strength wise may be stronger than most, but his speed and attack range are severely dampered by his shortened limbs and heavier mass.

Meanwhile, the Seguleh are a nation who pride themselves not only as warriors but specifically swordsmen. You dont have grappelers among the bunch but instead REFINED swordsmen. Those who reside and procreate upon their homebase the island(name?) have adapted their physical anatomy to best suit advances in swordplay.

The Seguleh are of moderate size, lithe in agility. They have a reach that suits their fighting style of weilding dual swords, but their greatest attribute is their skill is HONED to suite their age old fighting style. Their speed develops along with skill and strength with age and fighting.

On to the direct comparisons between Mok and Tool. Tools advantages are wisdom and size. Tool has been swordfighting for so long he knows the ins and outs of any situation that could arise while in a duel. He has strenght and mass to force himself upon Mok and overwhelm him that way.

But Mok has a higher skill level because his ENTIRE life he has had swords in his hands and Mastered his nations technique. Argument you have is you say so did Tool. But as I have pointed out previously Tools skills hit a barrier due to his physical limitations and formality among his ancestors who didnt pride themselves on swordsmanship.

As others have said before the Imas were idle and stationary for ages and not only that they didnt have many able opponents to battle using swords. Mok continually is being or is challenging others because he isnt on top. Where as Tool is on top, and cant get any better. Mok has room for growth and can continue his training until he feels he is the best, which would culminate with a victory over the Segulha first.

From Tools own mouth he is witness to SUPERIOR skill comming from Mok. Why because Mok's upbringing and entire nation are ALL ABOUT sword fighting. So advantage to Mok in Skill and Speed, advantage to Tool in experience and strength.

The biggest factor you must take into account is experience. You say Tool has more experience, you can look at it that way by saying he has lived for millenia. Mok has had less time to battle people and probably has had less total amount of battles than Tool.

But the battles he has taken part in have been of a higher skill level as his opponents swordsmanship was a higher degree than that of Tools opponents. Here you have Tool fighting more battles and gaining wisdom but fighting against weaker duelists. On the other side you have Mok pushing himself with every single duel he takes part in until he makes his way to the position as Segulha third. He has faced opponents who at the time might have been better he just defeated them.

[Lord of Salvation]

Well this post is going to be spam I can already see.

Of course, I mean I think they are cool and BAMF's like everyone else.

But judging from the length of my reply I just felt like speaking my mind, that and I was bored.

Also I got to work my way into this small nit community known as the Malazan Empire somehow. And what better way then either a incrediblly good post or a smart sarcastic remark?

[Lord of Salvation]

Thats a new one to me, it seems I must catch up on the Malaz Vernacular or eubonics rather quickly.

I am referring to the eskimo bit, I never once upon reading their descriptions thought of the Imas as and eskimoesq civilization, but thats just me.

[Lord of Salvation]

No of course you are correct in a sense, since they did wear furs and heavy lard.

But the similaritys between the Imass, Barghast, and Moranth etc al. just dont strike me as the Iglue dwelling denizens.

[Lord of Salvation]

no I got what you meant, but I always envisoned them as trans-siberic nomads