[Lord of Salvation]

Okies but the Imass are modeled after conquest rather than discovery correct? Conquest being the erradication of the Jagut species.

Where as the others were already conquerors and travelled to discover "hidden treasures arrgh" hopefully that conveyed a pirate motif.

And then the last sub category or those nomads whose civilizations failed due to failed crops or migratory herds they depended on as fodder.

[Lord of Salvation]

True but then the Jagut didnt stand a chance once a unified rebellion was in their midst.

They could be something like Saxtons then, barbaric peoples from cold tundras looking for conquest of foreign lands.

Im sure SE has modeled tons of his peoples after real civilizations in real life, like the Malaz as Roman empire, Seven cities(?) and I am clueless as to the many other civilizations yet to be introduced but Im sure there is some historic reference.

I wonder who Khenghis Khan would be or the Mongolian raiders in general?

[Lord of Salvation]

Doh I completely forgot about the Wickans, the motto fits them being barbarians and horse riders and all.

In all world building sagas there is always a roman empire, barbaric society, and unenlightened reclusive plains people.

[Dolorous Menhir]

The Imass are intelligent Neanderthals. They are not based on any real-world human group, since they are Malaz-human evolutionary precursors. This has been pretty much verified by the author. He is an anthropologist. In a similar vein, the Tiste Andii are Dark Elves,

(edit: decided to spoiler out this bit, since it's post MoI info, even if it doesn't really ruin anything)

Spoiler

the FA are the classic "gray" aliens,

and KCCM are essentially high-tech dinosaurs...

The Jaghut sit outside all normal classifications though, SE has noted with pride. He considers them to be original, I remember reading.

You get much more mileage identifying various Malaz human tribes with real world peoples. For example Apsalar (Itko Kanese) appears to be Asian, and Seven Cities is strongly reminiscent of Africa.

And of course, the Malazan Empire is clearly based on Roman & Napoleonic histories. (There was a Book of the Fallen written for the Napoleonic wars, it is the inspiration for the series subtitle, if not the entire series itself).

[tiam]

yeh Napoleons version just lists the dead (fallen) though doesnt it ?

As for 7c empire Ottaman empire maybe? Also for some reason i took Malaz (apart from the obvious roman military similarites) to be like Japan invading China like manchuria.

[Lord of Salvation]

Yeah I took the Seven Cities to resemble Africa, not only due to their darkened pigments but the subterfudge and chaos within, insinuating African civil wars and genocide here.

Apsalar resembling an Asian, I never pictured it but I am not well rounded on the backgrounds of all the societies and groups within the novels.

Somehow ther is no pigmy or mayan jungle empire.

[Dolorous Menhir]

There have been physical descriptions of Apsalar that strongly suggest she is of Asian appearance.

[Lord of Salvation]

So is Crokus Black then.

I always pictured the two as causasian.

[Aptorian]

Whoa, Lord of Salvation and Rusty, hard to keep up when you two start discussing... here and there...

Let me start with saying that I believe that at every new bigger scene, where new creatures and powers are introduced, SE adjusts the powers at play as he sees fit. Some times that doesn't make much sense.

To adress the Raest vs. Tool thing first: I think it's a big GotM'ism. No way, even weakened, should Tool be a match for Raest. The Jaghut were as powerful as the eldergods, Raest was worse. The guy fights 5 dragons and wins. He makes Anomander Rake pause, argumentably one of the maybe 5 strongest living creatures on Wu. Yes, Tool cuts him in half, afterwards, Raest should have snaped his fingers and Tool would have turned into dust in the wind, that's how it should have been.

On the case about T'lan Imass vs. Seguleh:
Our biggest problem is that we don't understand the Seguleh yet. We just don't know enough. But of what we know, as you say, Seguleh live for fighting. The ones we've met, with swords, are fenomenal.
BUT, the T'lan along with Tool, died for fighting! Tool has been using his sword not just on jaghut but maybe on hundreds or thousands of other cultures during his time.
On top of that, size, weight, height, speed, really don't matter when youa re standing in front of a creature magically inhanced. With superhuman speed, strength, indurance and millenia worth of will power.

[Lord of Salvation]

Apt said:

On the case about T'lan Imass vs. Seguleh:
Our biggest problem is that we don't understand the Seguleh yet. We just don't know enough. But of what we know, as you say, Seguleh live for fighting. The ones we've met, with swords, are fenomenal.
BUT, the T'lan along with Tool, died for fighting! Tool has been using his sword not just on jaghut but maybe on hundreds or thousands of other cultures during his time.
On top of that, size, weight, height, speed, really don't matter when youa re standing in front of a creature magically inhanced. With superhuman speed, strength, indurance and millenia worth of will power.

So even though Toc severely struggled against his second Seguleh opponent you are saying his experience is the proving determinant.

In my earlier post I explained the key differences of experience. Fighting a ton vs Fighting less but way better opponents.
I would lean toward the latter, the Seguleh in this case

[Lord of Salvation]

Yes those are all factors but the self doubt on Tool's behalf as well

Remember Tool more than doubted himself he felt he couldnt defeat Mok.