[Midnight]

I know this has probably been posted before but I couldn't find the thread. Just a couple of questions regarding the First Throne...

1) Cotillion says that if the Tiste Edur find they cannot use the throne they will destory it and that would be bad....why would its destruction be a negative?

2) What exactly is the First Throne and what is its purpose? Do the Imass want someone to occupy it just so they can obtain absolution when their war is complete?

[BridgeBurner]

1. My view is that it would be the destruction of a known power base. If it's destroyed, something will need to replace it, and that something would be unknown. Compare it with Felisin Younger being meant to be used by at least 3 different sides, for filling the gap that was left after the demise of the Whirlwind Goddess...

2. Apparently if the right person sits on it, that person would be able to command the Imass. Kellanved was able to command a small part of them (the Logros, IIRC). Common view is that its next occupant is already being groomed by the Eres'al. I think it was that child that was shown in MT. Or was it Kettle? (Haven't arrived at MT yet in my reread)

[tiam]

the child was rud ellale i think and hes with the imass so yes quite i good target. And Kellenved only being able to commad the Logros was due to their proximity to the throne. The power of the first throne is failing so thats why kellenved never gained ultimate control.

Also as for Cotillion saying that the throne would be destroyed being a bad thing is that it would weaken the ritual and mean their would be more renegade Imass. this would be bad for the plans of gods IMO

[fan_83]

actually isn;t silverfox destined to sit on that throne to lead all the imass into oblivion and thus shut down the first throne? or is silverfox supposed to be the mortal bonecaster to the one who sits on the throne?
cos due to the big deal made in MOI regarding silverfox

[Midnight]

Rud Elalle makes sense to be the new guardian. Silverfox is who was meant to sit on the throne I think because she is the flesh and blood Bonecaster. Pretty sure that Kettle is meant to sit on the throne of a healed Kurald Emurlahn and counter the corruption of Rhulad.

@Bridgeburner - I realize the First Throne can be used by a mortal to command the Imass but why would they want that? Can't they control themselves?

[Dolorous Menhir]

BridgeBurner said:

2. Apparently if the right person sits on it, that person would be able to command the Imass. Kellanved was able to command a small part of them (the Logros, IIRC). Common view is that its next occupant is already being groomed by the Eres'al. I think it was that child that was shown in MT. Or was it Kettle? (Haven't arrived at MT yet in my reread)

You are confusing the Shadow Throne on Drift Avalii and the Imass First Throne (undisclosed location in Seven Cities). Kellanved has sat both at various times - the Imass Throne as Emperor, hence Imperial use of Imass armies, and (my opinion) as of BH he now sits the proper Shadow Throne also.

The child of Trull & the Eres'al is being groomed to occupy the Shadow Throne, and this is believed to be Kettle (as yet unverified, but seems likely).

The Imass Throne has nothing to do with that - Silverfox is the one who has been created to sit this Throne, as the first mortal Bonecaster (save Kilava) in three hundred millenia.

[fan_83]

err rud ella is a soletaken who is growing at a tremendous rate: last i remembered he went form a baby to a boy of around 10 in around 2 weeks i think

also st hasn't sat on the the proper shadow throne yet. if he does so, he would have gotten a huge amount of power boost and will be able to command some of the edur who still uses KE. he has protected it, stood next to it, used magic to hide it but he has not sat on it

[BridgeBurner]

@Dolourous Menhir and Fan_83:
You are both right. Thanks for putting me on track again. Apparently this reread I'm doing is well needed...

[Monoch Ochem]

@ Dolorous: But the chained dragons affirmed that ST does not sit on the real Shadow Throne. The one being groomed to sit on it is the Eres'al's unborn child (Bottle foresees him ruling over a healed KE but with so many enemies).

[Abyss]

Yet curiously, while the renegades are mentioned in MoI, the First Throne is not (i think - anyone know otherwise?), and apparently has no role in SFox releasing the Imass from the Ritual.

ST sits on the Throne of Meanas and presumably Rashan. He has a guardianship of sorts of the Elder KE throne, which is not the same thing.


- Abyss, prefers a heated throne.

[Illuyankas]

It's more Shadowthrone's shadow is sitting on the Throne of Shadow, while he's looking after the Elder Shadow Throne.

[Monoch Ochem]

I don't think ANYone's seated on the Throne of Shadow Illuyankas...not even a shadow. ST obviously knows where it is but doesn't try to use it...there's probably a good reason why as it has been alluded to before that you can potentially sit on more than one throne.

[Illuyankas]

Sitting as in metaphorically. Actually, as in mind burp. It's interesting to think just how much control ST has over the Realm of Shadow, and if he has more now with Edgewalker's approval...

[Monoch Ochem]

ST is somewhere in the middle of all that is to come apparently. He doesn't seem to have any interest in occupying the KE Throne that we know of. He might though...as the dragon said, a sundered realm is the weakest realm of all. It's probably just homage though...KE is, after all, the 'patron' of Meanas/Rashan.

[Aptorian]

I thought you just had to let your butt touch the seat and you had the power untill someone else took a seat on the throne. Otherwise how would the kings or queens of a house with a throne ever be able to do anything when they were sitting down all day.

[Monoch Ochem]

Sure Apt...Togg and Fanderay aren't literally seated on anything. But I'm saying that I don't believe his bum's ever touched it, neither do I think he has plans to touch it.

[Aptorian]

But. He has to have touched one of the thrones, since he has power over a fragment of shadow... Or is that a third throne or a realmfragment without a throne. I guess ST could have discovered some other way to use such a realm when he travelled the Azath or researching the library of a conquered city.

[Illuyankas]

Of course ST sat on the Throne, it's part of his master plan, to sit on ALL the thrones. Doesn't mean that he stays on it all the time.

[Abyss]

That's part of the the catch, isn't it... you can sit on the Throne (any throne) and give all kinds of commands to protect your claim to it, set guards, traps, uncomfortable cushions, whatever... (ST seems inclined to secure multiple thrones butnot attract attention to this) ...but sooner or later you have to leave it.

If only to go pee.

I mean, you could sit there and just pee on yourself, but ick, not much of a power-image...

- Abyss, must go pee now.