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ok i made that statment without really thinking about it but does his sword hold all the souls hes taken?
Rhulad: How strong will he be?
#22
fan_83 
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Posted 27 May 2006 - 06:16 PM
karsa is nowhere near iccy level of power and most probably never will be..
i mean the only ones capable of standing up to crazy iccy will have to be the best and strongest of the lot with tons of power..
rake, osserc and caladan are the ones i believe to have a chance os stadnign against iccy.. rake and caladan both have weapon capable of defeating iccy
i think rhulad gain the skills of the ones that kill him to add to his skil.. otherwise where would the skill increase come from?
or perhaps, he gain the skills of the ones he kill, but he needs to die before the skill can be incorporated into him?
does that make sense.. its like he is collecting the skill of those he kills but he needs to reboot before he can apply it
i mean the only ones capable of standing up to crazy iccy will have to be the best and strongest of the lot with tons of power..
rake, osserc and caladan are the ones i believe to have a chance os stadnign against iccy.. rake and caladan both have weapon capable of defeating iccy
i think rhulad gain the skills of the ones that kill him to add to his skil.. otherwise where would the skill increase come from?
or perhaps, he gain the skills of the ones he kill, but he needs to die before the skill can be incorporated into him?
does that make sense.. its like he is collecting the skill of those he kills but he needs to reboot before he can apply it
#23
Aptorian
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Posted 27 May 2006 - 06:23 PM
fan_83 said:
karsa is nowhere near iccy level of power and most probably never will be..
i mean the only ones capable of standing up to crazy iccy will have to be the best and strongest of the lot with tons of power..
rake, osserc and caladan are the ones i believe to have a chance os stadnign against iccy.. rake and caladan both have weapon capable of defeating iccy
i think rhulad gain the skills of the ones that kill him to add to his skil.. otherwise where would the skill increase come from?
or perhaps, he gain the skills of the ones he kill, but he needs to die before the skill can be incorporated into him?
does that make sense.. its like he is collecting the skill of those he kills but he needs to reboot before he can apply it
i mean the only ones capable of standing up to crazy iccy will have to be the best and strongest of the lot with tons of power..
rake, osserc and caladan are the ones i believe to have a chance os stadnign against iccy.. rake and caladan both have weapon capable of defeating iccy
i think rhulad gain the skills of the ones that kill him to add to his skil.. otherwise where would the skill increase come from?
or perhaps, he gain the skills of the ones he kill, but he needs to die before the skill can be incorporated into him?
does that make sense.. its like he is collecting the skill of those he kills but he needs to reboot before he can apply it
I don't think that the powers he gets from death are affected by the foes he fights. It's the death that empowers him. Remember that death seems to be a major player in the transition for people to acendency or power. Rhulad dies again and again.
Also I'm wondering if it's actually Rhulad that's getting stronger, or its the sword. Just like Rake's it might be sucking up the force of the people it slays. The sword is described as moving in Rhulads hans almost as if it has a mind of its own. Again playing in to the thought that Rhulad is but a pawn.
#24
Tiste Simeon
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Posted 27 May 2006 - 07:29 PM
The thing I wanted to know is this: When Rhulad came up against Moroch Nevath, he said that he was going to cut Rhulad up into small portions (paraphrased) so he couldn't come back to life. Now someone like Karsa is likely to do just that. Would that actually prevent him coming back to life? I think so.
Should be interesting to find out.
Should be interesting to find out.
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#25
tiam
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Posted 27 May 2006 - 08:03 PM
fan 83- You say were would he get that skill from. well experience of facing 100s of champions from the entire world might help him gain some competence with a sword.
tiste simeon- yeh he would. i beleive someone with a good amount of strength is needed to deal with him. Like Karsa or Iccy who is stronger than karsa btw.
tiste simeon- yeh he would. i beleive someone with a good amount of strength is needed to deal with him. Like Karsa or Iccy who is stronger than karsa btw.
#26
Illuyankas
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Posted 27 May 2006 - 08:35 PM
The way the sword is said to work by the CG is that it release more of it's power to Rhulad every time he dies. This seems to be both magical (healing Binadas, the flooding of the Nascent) and physical (swordsmanship) in nature.
I wonder if Rhulad can use his magical powers himself in battle...
I wonder if Rhulad can use his magical powers himself in battle...
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#27 Guest_Crimson_*
Posted 28 May 2006 - 12:39 AM
its funny how Karsa keeps killing of the CGs people:P I hope karsa wins!
#28
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Posted 28 May 2006 - 05:37 AM
Someone mentioned earlier on in the thread that Rhulad's abilities were only increasing in terms of mundane skills, such as sword fighting. However, when Rhulad first comes back to life he gains knowledge of the shadow wraiths and the Nerek and later (after other resurrections) he gains control over the fragments of Kurald Emurlahn, like when he creates the Nascent by opening up a gate from it to the demon realm. If he grows more powerful in terms of sorcery then he might very well be a match for Icarium.
#29 Guest_Angel_*
Posted 28 May 2006 - 08:19 AM
I found it interesting that everyone's favourite character is Icarium and everyone wants him to be this massive killing machine, but nothing we have SEEN shows him to possess the strength to kill Rhulad. If he is not angry, it is as simple as Karsa knocking him out. So unless Iccy is exceptionally angry then he isn't going to be winning a battle with Rhulad. In combat, one on one, he could no even kill Trull Sengar. Trull was shocked by the skill of Brys in MT, so I think its safe to assume that Brys was substantially better than Trull. If Rhulad is anywhere close to the skill that Brys was, he should be comfortably able to beat Icarium.
Whats so confusing about it then? The mystery of course; the intrigue into who is the more powerful. Have we seen the true extent of Icarium's wrath? We are TOLD that he can destroy entire civilisations and has great stregth, so much so that ascendants themselves fear him. What we do not know though, is how strong he really is. Trull could hold him off in battle. He was going to die, but he still did. And whether Icarium actually killed the Bonecaster is debatable, because, and you can correct me if I'm wrong- it isn't positively clear that the Bonecaster (im forgetting the name) was destroyed by Icarium's power.
Its intriguing because these great strengths, in Iccy, Karsa and Rhulad are all heading towards a massive collision and yet, its uncertain who will come out on top. Unless Iccy has something we haven't yet seen then he isn't going to win IMO, sure he is a freaking legend with great skill and a very likeable character, but what does it matter if he kills Rhulad? He comes back to life and what, round two? round three? round four? I think it was ST in Bonehunters who said something like the nameless ones had unleashed Icarium to fight Rhulad, but they were wrong. He doesn't know the outcome and he cant predict it. How exciting! When's RG
Whats so confusing about it then? The mystery of course; the intrigue into who is the more powerful. Have we seen the true extent of Icarium's wrath? We are TOLD that he can destroy entire civilisations and has great stregth, so much so that ascendants themselves fear him. What we do not know though, is how strong he really is. Trull could hold him off in battle. He was going to die, but he still did. And whether Icarium actually killed the Bonecaster is debatable, because, and you can correct me if I'm wrong- it isn't positively clear that the Bonecaster (im forgetting the name) was destroyed by Icarium's power.
Its intriguing because these great strengths, in Iccy, Karsa and Rhulad are all heading towards a massive collision and yet, its uncertain who will come out on top. Unless Iccy has something we haven't yet seen then he isn't going to win IMO, sure he is a freaking legend with great skill and a very likeable character, but what does it matter if he kills Rhulad? He comes back to life and what, round two? round three? round four? I think it was ST in Bonehunters who said something like the nameless ones had unleashed Icarium to fight Rhulad, but they were wrong. He doesn't know the outcome and he cant predict it. How exciting! When's RG
#31 Guest_Angel_*
Posted 28 May 2006 - 10:24 AM
Of this year? Bah, betya its delayed... and then theres the wait for it to come out in Australia... oh what fun.
#32
fan_83
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Posted 28 May 2006 - 01:59 PM
angel: reread the scenario at the end of BH, trull may be able to stand up and hold off iccy for a while but he will fall in the end..
and calm iccy can be knoecked out but even then when someone approaches a sleeping iccy with hostile intent his protection kicks in..
reread dhg again, a kocked out iccy starts keening and the hos and all other divers start scrambling backwards.. thats uncouncious iccy
in bh, when teh bonecaster appear, he starts keening and monoch starts running,.. when he saw the dead bodies and fighting, he starts seriously keening.
when BAD throws him back, he starts getting madder and madder and his aura/warren usage start getting more and more uber
he is the only one known to been able to destroy an azath house in its prime.. what does that tell you of strenth when an azath is able to hold 2 soletaken dragons of powerful strenth, a pack of powerful divers and 5 toblakai gods and yet falls to iccy when he is determined and calm.. with the chaos infection, iccy's power is ramped up big time
the only way rhulad can survive against him is to not be hostile towards him. otehrwise he will start keening and lethar will be a big hole once hes done..
and calm iccy can be knoecked out but even then when someone approaches a sleeping iccy with hostile intent his protection kicks in..
reread dhg again, a kocked out iccy starts keening and the hos and all other divers start scrambling backwards.. thats uncouncious iccy
in bh, when teh bonecaster appear, he starts keening and monoch starts running,.. when he saw the dead bodies and fighting, he starts seriously keening.
when BAD throws him back, he starts getting madder and madder and his aura/warren usage start getting more and more uber
he is the only one known to been able to destroy an azath house in its prime.. what does that tell you of strenth when an azath is able to hold 2 soletaken dragons of powerful strenth, a pack of powerful divers and 5 toblakai gods and yet falls to iccy when he is determined and calm.. with the chaos infection, iccy's power is ramped up big time
the only way rhulad can survive against him is to not be hostile towards him. otehrwise he will start keening and lethar will be a big hole once hes done..
#33 Guest_Angel_*
Posted 28 May 2006 - 03:10 PM
I don't need to reread, because if you'd bothered to read my post properly I said Trull was going to fall, yet he was holding Iccy at bay. My point is, if Trull can do it, someone like Brys do better.
And for all that he does, he achieves nothing. The hounds go away from him, but who can judge what their true motivation is. As I said, we haven't actually SEEN, note the emphasis, Iccy go into crazy mode and this is the point. Every suspects that he has great power but it hasn't been proved yet. Speculation, nothing more. Reread all the books you might find this in there...
And for heavens sake, Rhulad doesn't want to survive. He just wakes up and goes again until eventually Iccy is dead. And Iccy in crazy mode, which is the only way he is going to beat Rhulad, isn't going to stop and discern who he is fighting or why. He's just going to keep trying to kill Rhulad, which he can't do before he comes back to life.
Next time, at least read someone's post properly before you comment on it. I don't need to reread the book, as I have obviously considered it in my post.
And for all that he does, he achieves nothing. The hounds go away from him, but who can judge what their true motivation is. As I said, we haven't actually SEEN, note the emphasis, Iccy go into crazy mode and this is the point. Every suspects that he has great power but it hasn't been proved yet. Speculation, nothing more. Reread all the books you might find this in there...
And for heavens sake, Rhulad doesn't want to survive. He just wakes up and goes again until eventually Iccy is dead. And Iccy in crazy mode, which is the only way he is going to beat Rhulad, isn't going to stop and discern who he is fighting or why. He's just going to keep trying to kill Rhulad, which he can't do before he comes back to life.
Next time, at least read someone's post properly before you comment on it. I don't need to reread the book, as I have obviously considered it in my post.
#34
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 28 May 2006 - 03:45 PM
I wonder if Rhulad can resurrect from any degree of physical damage. Would he be returned if he was drawn and quartered? Decapitated?
Just curious to know, would he come back from an Icarium-inflicted all-but-vapourisation such as was suffered by Ibra Gholan?
Just curious to know, would he come back from an Icarium-inflicted all-but-vapourisation such as was suffered by Ibra Gholan?
#35
Monoch Ochem
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Posted 28 May 2006 - 03:54 PM
It would seem that he can return from any form of death....he was able to heal Binadas wasn't he? Even the best among the Edur weren't able to so I reckon he can knit himself back together no matter the damage, if the CG so willed it. Who's to say that anyone trying to withhold a limb wouldn't come under some Chaotic sorcerous attack from it?
Speaking of limbs, unrelated topic but I was listening to Wagner's opera 'Lohengrin' recently and Ortrud (a witch) told her husband Friedrich that severing the smallest limb from the hero would have rendered his magical enhancements useless against them. She specifically mentioned a finger and I thought of Brys Bedict. Wonder if that's where SE derived the inspiration for Feather Witch and Brys' finger?
Speaking of limbs, unrelated topic but I was listening to Wagner's opera 'Lohengrin' recently and Ortrud (a witch) told her husband Friedrich that severing the smallest limb from the hero would have rendered his magical enhancements useless against them. She specifically mentioned a finger and I thought of Brys Bedict. Wonder if that's where SE derived the inspiration for Feather Witch and Brys' finger?
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#36
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 28 May 2006 - 03:59 PM
Brys has (had) no magical enchantments though. Are you thinking that FW may be able to use the forgotten gods somehow, because Brys (in his capacity as Guardian) will not be able to assault her and keep her from them?
#37
polishgenius
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Posted 28 May 2006 - 04:04 PM
Angel: I think you're overreacting. I don't think he was insulting you.
Also: There's several factors to take into account here. We don't know how good Trull was in MT - certainly brilliant, he leaves Fear and the others in awe after the Jheck attack - and the fact that he's shocked after seeing Brys doesn't mean Brys was better than him. We know Brys is better than Fear from Fear's thoughts, but iirc even Fear's not sure exactly how good Trull is. And he's got better since then - he's had practice, and he's Knight of Shadow, at least by the end of the fight with Iccy. And in the situation he was in, the spear is better for desperately holding of Icarium's attack than a sword.
And we also know that Icarium gets more dangerous with time - QB arrives, knocks him back, a minute later he's not able to - and just because we're relying on hearsay to know he destroys continents doesn't mean it's not reliable. It's common knowledge that he does.
Also, to clarify my earlier Karsa comment - it's difficult to tell how powerful he really is because he's growing so fast there's no real context, so I'm speculating. But note the ease with which he disposes of the troops of Edur, similiar to the way in which an Icarium at the beginning of his rage takes out the troops in the cave. And the fact that he's basically a warren. And stows souls. And resistant to magic. And has a six foot unbreakable stone sword. And SE has mentioned that there'll be more people underestimating him.
And one more thing on Icarium - it's not said anywhere he's the most powerful character, he's the most dangerous because he can't control his power. Rake, Brood, Ruin, and probably others could probaly take out continents, but they don't.
Also: There's several factors to take into account here. We don't know how good Trull was in MT - certainly brilliant, he leaves Fear and the others in awe after the Jheck attack - and the fact that he's shocked after seeing Brys doesn't mean Brys was better than him. We know Brys is better than Fear from Fear's thoughts, but iirc even Fear's not sure exactly how good Trull is. And he's got better since then - he's had practice, and he's Knight of Shadow, at least by the end of the fight with Iccy. And in the situation he was in, the spear is better for desperately holding of Icarium's attack than a sword.
And we also know that Icarium gets more dangerous with time - QB arrives, knocks him back, a minute later he's not able to - and just because we're relying on hearsay to know he destroys continents doesn't mean it's not reliable. It's common knowledge that he does.
Also, to clarify my earlier Karsa comment - it's difficult to tell how powerful he really is because he's growing so fast there's no real context, so I'm speculating. But note the ease with which he disposes of the troops of Edur, similiar to the way in which an Icarium at the beginning of his rage takes out the troops in the cave. And the fact that he's basically a warren. And stows souls. And resistant to magic. And has a six foot unbreakable stone sword. And SE has mentioned that there'll be more people underestimating him.
And one more thing on Icarium - it's not said anywhere he's the most powerful character, he's the most dangerous because he can't control his power. Rake, Brood, Ruin, and probably others could probaly take out continents, but they don't.
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#38
Monoch Ochem
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Posted 28 May 2006 - 04:16 PM
I agree Dolo but I wasn't referring to when Brys was still mortal. I'm referring to now that he's an ascendant....since FW has his finger, does she have some power over him? Likely, though that other witch (Karsa's companion...her name slips me now) doubts FW's wisdom/power in what she's doing.
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#39
polishgenius
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Posted 28 May 2006 - 04:24 PM
Brys is ascendant? Did I miss that? Or misinterpret something?
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#40
fan_83
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Posted 28 May 2006 - 05:20 PM
Angel: i did reread and understand your post. you disbelieve iccy's power cos it was never obvious, and yet you discount the fact that he has destroyed continents, an azath house and cities and whole armies throughout history taht is accepted as canon. does that not mean that iccy poseess a huge amount of power?
the point that he achieves nothing is a pointless thing due to his nature and curse.. he does not remember what he does and therefore he has nothing to achieve towards..
the hounds back away from him snarling, that context is obvious in the way that they fear him and know that they are not able to beat him.
and regarding my point about rhulad and iccy. iccy will keep on destroying stuff and til a certain point when theres no one near him for him to calm down. when that happens, at that point in time, rhulad would have resurrected and will attack iccy who will promply annihilate him and hten go to sleep and wake up to do it over and over again..
the fact that rhulad wants to die doesn;t matter as he had the chance to die by not taking up the sword that is in the cg's camp when he was kebabed.. that is the key to his resurrection.. he must pick up the sword to be resurrected.. and by this time hes mad enough to not care anymore
the point that he achieves nothing is a pointless thing due to his nature and curse.. he does not remember what he does and therefore he has nothing to achieve towards..
the hounds back away from him snarling, that context is obvious in the way that they fear him and know that they are not able to beat him.
and regarding my point about rhulad and iccy. iccy will keep on destroying stuff and til a certain point when theres no one near him for him to calm down. when that happens, at that point in time, rhulad would have resurrected and will attack iccy who will promply annihilate him and hten go to sleep and wake up to do it over and over again..
the fact that rhulad wants to die doesn;t matter as he had the chance to die by not taking up the sword that is in the cg's camp when he was kebabed.. that is the key to his resurrection.. he must pick up the sword to be resurrected.. and by this time hes mad enough to not care anymore
