Malazan Empire: The Eres'al and Timetravel - Malazan Empire

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The Eres'al and Timetravel

#1 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 08:04 AM

Hi This is my first post and I have to say I love this forum. There's a lot of mindblowing speculations going about.

I've noticed something about the conversation around the Eres'al.
http://www.malazanem...read.php?t=4814

This is probably the biggest thread of discussion I could locate.
Now please tell me if this has been discussed somewhere else but in the four pages I've read through so far (in the forums that is) I don't see it mentioned anywhere else.

Abyss comment - "She's in transition when she runs into Trull in the warren, and eventually possessed T'amber, probably in the midst of the campaign in HoC. While with T"amber, she also takes an interest in Bottle.

Plus, with time and location being flexible for her, she can basically be anywhere she needs to be."

Danyahs comment - "I think the blessing just draws her attention, thus bringing her to this part of time. Talking about the fourth dimension in a non-linear way is hard for my brains."

In the speculations around the creature Eres in the book, a tremendous amount of power and potentiel seems to be expected of the creature. From you the readers. Now I admit that it's release of eldermagic in the unwielding of sorcerry/illusion between QB and the K'risnan/mages and it's push of the ships half across the known world is impressive, but that doesnt really make it as strong or stronger than say K'rull or Mael.

I will not mention it's involvement with Icarium since i thought that a bit... out of place/strange. Tinkerbell creature.

But here's the part that gets me every time she's mentioned. People describe her as a timetravler. Now what's this about? Can someone tell me of a place in TBH where the Eres is portraied as actually travelling through time? Granted it's mostly MT and TBH's that's fresh to my mind but I don't remember her mentioned as a timetravler.

I'm guessing the idea that she should be traveling through time stems from Bottles flashbacks of the Eres on some plain in the worlds earliest history. And the fact that she keeps pulling him back and forth through visions. I also remember some other reference but it's eluding me right now. But this doesn't make her a timetravler. She's some kind of god, not elder, something different seing as she seems connected to the Malazworld and it's childhood like a great earthspirit. Unlike the older elemental powers that existed before.

What I see her doing is the same thing as you see K'rull involved in with the rebirth of Nightchill/Tattersail. Or Udinaas and Featherwich visit upon Udinaas own child in the realm/memory of the Tlan Imass. It's not as I see it as much timetravel as it's just travel. Memmories linger like pockets of time in SE's universe. Realms and times are forgotten and rediscovered. There seems to me to be very little distinction between times and places, warrens and time. Critical events seem to live on. The immortal races like the jaghut and the Edur/Andii seem to hardly ecknowledge the passings of time. Their minds easilly wandering back and forth through ages and places. The best evidence I have for this would again be MT, where Silchas Ruin take both Kettle and Brys back in time to see the bringing down of the CG and the piles of dead FA killed by Silchas/the Andii. Also Udinaas travels with Wither to the time of the battle between the Sisters, where they are dragging one off and I think it's Menandore that rapes Udinaas.

Hmm, the Eres playing with Bottles privates, the taking of Trulls seed, the Edur Sister abusing Udinaas... what's up with SE and willfull women and men sexually assaulted? ;)

Back on topic. All these events I hardly think of as timetravel. With K'rull and Eres it's even more evident. I think those passages should merely, if you could call it that, be chalked down to the alien minds of these gods. They are able to think on a much larger scale and plan schemes that transcends hundreds of thousands of years.

To sum up my oppinion, the Eres'al doesn't travel time anymore than the other ancient beings in the stories, she just exists in many timeperiods.

What do you say?
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Posted 22 May 2006 - 08:22 AM

Apt said:

I'm guessing the idea that she should be traveling through time stems from Bottles flashbacks of the Eres on some plain in the worlds earliest history. And the fact that she keeps pulling him back and forth through visions. I also remember some other reference but it's eluding me right now. But this doesn't make her a timetravler. She's some kind of god, not elder, something different seing as she seems connected to the Malazworld and it's childhood like a great earthspirit. Unlike the older elemental powers that existed before.


Nope Silchas Ruin said it in Midnight Tides
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#3 User is offline   Dark Mac 

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 08:27 AM

I believe that the Eres'al's timetravelling is first discussed in HoC, when she rapes Trull. Kettle is their daughter, so obviously some timetravelling was required there.

"I'm guessing the idea that she should be travelling through time stems from Bottles flashbacks of the Eres on some plain in the worlds earliest history. And the fact that she keeps pulling him back and forth through visions. I also remember some other reference but it's eluding me right now. But this doesn't make her a timetraveller. She's some kind of god, not elder, something different seeing as she seems connected to the Malazworld and it's childhood like a great earth spirit. Unlike the older elemental powers that existed before."

The Eres'al is the goddess of the Eres. That's all we know for now.
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Posted 22 May 2006 - 09:02 AM

Maybe the Eres’al is not time-traveling in a direct way but lives in a realm with a non-linear notion of time. Like the prophets in Deep Space Nine. That means everyone summoned in her realm is now independent of the linear time scale of Wu.
What strikes me is that no other god seems to have this ability, be it time-traveling or being detached from the linearity of time as they all do not know about what will happen in the future … or maybe this ability reaches only backward not forward.
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#5 User is offline   Hume 

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 09:12 AM

@ Apt

I Think its in Silchas' Convo with Kettle..

One of the Imass also says it When trull gets Raped by her in HoC.

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 09:30 AM

yup your right
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#7 User is offline   Murrin 

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 09:48 AM

The Eres were a species early enough on in human evolution that they had developed sentience but still had a more animal concept of time. They lived in the moment, rather than the before or after - and this makes the Eres'al "unfixed" in time, able to just wander about where she likes. It may also explain her confusion on crafting the new Deck - she struggles where looking into the future is concerned.
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#8 User is offline   Tiger_sword 

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 09:49 AM

It has the potential for incredible power. Of course we have no idea of the restraints on time traveling through warrens or in SE's world. Could it be that she was drawn by the convergence and the threat of the CG? Most likely if you ask me. In which case we must ask ourselves how does each of her actions effect the world of Wu.

Protected Tavour - She is obviously got a huge role in whats to come
Raped Trull to birth Kettle - An interesting child with more power than she realises not to mention Trulls power.
Interested in Bottle - Now heres a guy whos power just keeps on growing
Stoped Iccys rage - Kept Iccy sane and kept others alive, all could be important.
Sped up spites boat - clearly wanted someone on board alive

What we have to think as well is if she can travel through time (to the future say) then it is possible that she knows the outcome.
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#9 User is offline   Dolorous Menhir 

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 09:59 AM

Yeah, someone (Silchas or Monok Ochem, I forget which) says something to the effect of

"(Trull's) child could be any age, anywhere, because the Eres'al can time-travel"

Plus it's pretty clear she's time travelling - she is affecting things in the real world (the Malazan fleet, Sister Spite's boat, Icarium's mind, Bottle's privates) - this is distinct from other time travelling seen, which usually takes place in the realm of dreams & or ethereal warrens (eg Pran Chole meeting Kruppe, which takes place in Kruppe's dream).

For example, your counterexample of Silchas Ruin taking Brys to see the Fall - this wasn't time-travel, since Brys (and Ruin) were travelling in spirit or Brys was being shown a vision - I don't think Brys would have been able to, for example, talk to someone from that earlier time. You can call that "time-travel" if you wish, but I think it's distinct from the "time-travel" we see the Eres'al use, for example she was actually there in the room with Icarium, at the end of BH - and touched him.

I just checked HoC, and Monok Ochem doesn't say it there - it must've been Silchas Ruin in MT, but I've got no idea where in the novel that conversation took place.
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#10 User is offline   Blind 

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 03:47 PM

Quote

"Knowing how Eres plays the game, lass, he might not even be your father yet. She wanders time, Kettle, in a manner no-one else can even understand, much less emulate. And this is very much her world. She is the fire that never dies."


MT, paperback p. 541-542 (chapter fourteen)
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#11 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 06:47 PM

Dolorous Menhir said:

Yeah, someone (Silchas or Monok Ochem, I forget which) says something to the effect of

"(Trull's) child could be any age, anywhere, because the Eres'al can time-travel"

Plus it's pretty clear she's time travelling - she is affecting things in the real world (the Malazan fleet, Sister Spite's boat, Icarium's mind, Bottle's privates) - this is distinct from other time travelling seen, which usually takes place in the realm of dreams & or ethereal warrens (eg Pran Chole meeting Kruppe, which takes place in Kruppe's dream).

For example, your counterexample of Silchas Ruin taking Brys to see the Fall - this wasn't time-travel, since Brys (and Ruin) were travelling in spirit or Brys was being shown a vision - I don't think Brys would have been able to, for example, talk to someone from that earlier time. You can call that "time-travel" if you wish, but I think it's distinct from the "time-travel" we see the Eres'al use, for example she was actually there in the room with Icarium, at the end of BH - and touched him.

I just checked HoC, and Monok Ochem doesn't say it there - it must've been Silchas Ruin in MT, but I've got no idea where in the novel that conversation took place.


In this and the above post I think I've been outsmarted here :Erm:

As I thought about my theory during the day I could see how I contradicted myself. I don't remember the timetravel stuff, but still, my Udinaas vs. Sisters of the Edur theory still holds water I think. I won't try and post other examples since I'm too damn rusty in the stories, but I'm still not convinced Eres is somehow special in her timejumpability.
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Posted 22 May 2006 - 06:57 PM

Silchas shows Udinaas a vision of the past yes... but they don't travel time.
Now Menandore rapes him in real time... when he meets up with his son.. who is seven weeks old but already around the size of a ten year old child? the seven weeks is about right - story wise. The child is growing quickly because it's a soletaken.
The Eres is the only one we have seen who literally can be in the past and in the present etc in whatever time she likes.
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#13 User is offline   Ellestra 

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 07:15 PM

From what Bottle thinks - feels about her nature - she doesn't "get" concept of time. For her it's forever present so she can be whenever she wants to be/thinks herself to be.

She seems to go to whomever draws her attention.

And it's not linear to us.

She gets interested in Trull after Fid's reading at the end of BH.
Gets pregnant with him in HoC.
Visits Bottle while pregnant.
Gives her child to NO well before MT - she manages to grow up, die, and "live" as Kettle for a while.
Evolution, just like gravity, works even if you don't believe in it.

Stupidity doesn't hurt but it kills.
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#14 User is offline   tiam 

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 08:32 PM

how does the eres time travel? i remember a quote saying how the Eres didnt respect the borders of the warrens or the realms in HOC. well not to that capacity but sumthing onrack or one of the imass says when transporting trull
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Posted 23 May 2006 - 08:34 AM

Dont know if its signifiacant or not.
But in MT. Onrack was telling Trull about the Eres and when Trull asked about if they had Shamans/Bonecasters Onrack stated the Eres were one and all Bonecasters. stands to reason their diety the Eres'al, would have some pretty unique gifts.
Undeniable plausability:D
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