[QuickBenDelat]

Ok this got me thinking a bit

We know that Poliel was the cause of the plague in 7C but do we know why? Paran went to kill him and when she was alone just before the Derogoth came, she was thinking in her head that she was actually saving Burn from the CG. At least thats the impression I got. Anyone have any ideas on that?

Another thing, how does ottataral stop Poliel? Isn't she of the elder races? I would have thought that she would have used an elder warren or something to get rid of the Dragoth or even against Paran.

What you say?

[Tiste Simeon]

Erm, well seen as Poleil has sided with the Crippled God, who is trying to destroy Burn, I think we can leave out that she was thinking she was trying to save Burn. I think that also provides an answer. She is on the side trying to ruin the world.

Also I don't think she is elder. At least she is never mentioned alongside elder Gods.

[Tiger_sword]

I agree that she is not elder but i do seam to remember her dying thoughts were that she wanted to save Burn. Prehaps she sided with the CG in order to get into his trust then save burn from within? It seams like the CG's goal is to either awaken or kill burn so her wanting to save burn clearly ment she wasn't completely on the CG's side. From her thoughs and Solei's speech afterwards it almost made me think that Paran had made a mistake

[Dark Mac]

She wanted to save Burn the same way Stalin wanted to save Russia's children. It was really nothing more than a rationalization for her, something to justify all the evil she has done.

You don't have to be an Elder God to be of an Elder Race. Many speculate that she's Forkrul Assail, which is indeed an elder race. As with Sorrit, it seems that Otataral in the bloodstream does damage where its mere external presence cannot.

[kkyyyssss]

hmmmm... the way i understood Poliel, her belief was that the humans were the cause of burn's affliction so she wanted to destroy them in order to save burn. So we can deduce that her goal for creating Burn's fever was the annihilation of the human race... Also im sorry but there is no "white and black" in erikson's universe so forget your notions of overlord of evil vs forces of good plz...

[blewin]

Kilava said:

hmmmm... the way i understood Poliel, her belief was that the humans were the cause of burn's affliction so she wanted to destroy them in order to save burn. So we can deduce that her goal for creating Burn's fever was the annihilation of the human race... Also im sorry but there is no "white and black" in erikson's universe so forget your notions of overlord of evil vs forces of good plz...

that's my understanding too, but isn't the Crippled God still sending poison into Burn's flesh? so whether the humans die or not is of no consequences.

[jammer]

that's the greatest thing about these books. As soon as you "know" something, you find out it is false. But yes, Poliel did state that her actions were to save Burn. now whether this is a justification or whether there is something else going on that we aren't entirely aware of is anyones guess

[Tiste Simeon]

Dark Mac said:

You don't have to be an Elder God to be of an Elder Race. Many speculate that she's Forkrul Assail, which is indeed an elder race. As with Sorrit, it seems that Otataral in the bloodstream does damage where its mere external presence cannot.

I can't remember there being anyone saying that she was FA... Or even speculating it...

blewin said:

that's my understanding too, but isn't the Crippled God still sending poison into Burn's flesh? so whether the humans die or not is of no consequences.

Exactly. Of course she might be thinking, in her fevered mind that she is doing good. She is the goddess of disease after all.

[Hume]

@ Tiste..
There was thread only recently that Speculated on Poliel/Soliel Being FA..

[Illuyankas]

@Tiste - Hume's right, there's some interesting discussion about the idea. I'll find it later though, I can't remember which thread it's in.

[tiam]

yes ive just finished that section on a reread and it hints at Poliel being an FA with her arms seeming to bear too mnay koints which we know is an FA charcteristic. the arguement against this is the taloned feet tjhat are described. the only race with taloned feet is the KCCM. maybe an FA/KCCM hybrid.

Neway on topic yes Poliel clearly blames humans for burns suffering. she also comments that she was burns salvation and that humans only think of salvation in terms of humanity. Quite odd thoughts for the mistress of disease?

[Dolorous Menhir]

http://www.malazanem...read.php?t=4593

This thread has largely the same discussion as above - but it dropped off the front page a few days ago. It's got the physical descriptions of Poleil, Soleil, and the FA we've encountered so far.

It seems Poleil shares many characteristics with the two FA we've seen - Calm & Serenity. But it's not conclusive, for example Poleil has three toes, and Calm had four fingers. Poleil is also described as taloned, which seems more beast-like than Calm & Serenity appeared.

I still think Poleil & Soleil were FA though. Does Poleil mean anything in different languages - Soleil is "sun" in french, right, as in Circe de Soleil. Maybe Poleil means moon or darkness or something similar?

[Tiste Simeon]

Poleil - Eclipse?
Will have to find my french dictionary...

And thanks for pointing that out to me, I just couldn't remember where I had heard that she might be FA. Oh sweet FA.

[Dark Mac]

It's actually "Poliel" and "Soliel", not Poleil and Soleil. The connection is obviously there, but "Poleil" isn't a word in French.

[kkyyyssss]

yeah, eclipse is eclipse in french... ^^

[fortyseven]

refrains from making a Superman joke

[Nazaar]

Quote

yes ive just finished that section on a reread and it hints at Poliel being an FA with her arms seeming to bear too mnay koints which we know is an FA charcteristic. the arguement against this is the taloned feet tjhat are described. the only race with taloned feet is the KCCM. maybe an FA/KCCM hybrid.

I think you're clutching at straws there. Yes, the FA connection could be plausible, but just having claws doesn't point towards a FA/KCCM hybrid, anymore than an FA/Bhok hybrid, FA/Dragon hybrid, FA/*insert type of bird* hyrbid. Out of the above, assuming any biological laws still apply, the FA/Bhok is the most likely, or FA and some sort of dragon soletaken maybe. The idea of mammals and reptiles breeding would be ludicrous unless there was hideous amounts of magic involved.

Personally I like the idea espoused in the other thread, of her being FA but her godhood has twisted her body to suit her demeanor.

The whole Poliel and Burn thing is interesting, if she'd succeeded in killing everyone, then Burn could awake the same way as if Brood had used his hammer, and iirc there was a suggestion that waking her would be one way of fixing the CG issue. Of course everyone would be dead, but what's a battle without some collateral damage?

[Asandir]

I have a question. Why would an FA become a God/Ascendant. It goes against their nature. If they were so into the concept of balance , you wouldn't really expect any of them been more devoted to one then the other. Plus if one became more powerful wouldn't that destroy the balance.
Unless for arguments sake we say that they were FA, they were oddballs/black sheep

[Aptorian]

I'd go with the black sheep idea, you know like the unbound T'lan Imass that won't serve their clans will.

Also we don't fully understand the FA way of thinking yet. Maybe these two FA (if Soliel is also FA) decided that the way to attain balance was to cull the mortals with deseases. Then Soliels objective was to make sure that the balance wasn't completely destroyed by saving a few. That would explain why she doesnt help stop the plague in the start.

I'm still wondering though if an FA, even changed into a God, would take orders from the Master of the Deck.

[fan_83]

errr the t'lan imass is a bad example.. once htey become unbound they are free to do what they please, they have no obligations or any way for their clan to force them to obey