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dark mac: the pannion is a scared little boy in the eyes of the janghut, his power comes from the matron source of power to resurrecte the undead kccm and the cg is adding him some power as well. i doubt he could be classified as tyrant class,
also the janghut that pran and kilava met face ot face with are already tired and weak.. maybe that has something to do with it or they are not tyrant class janghut
Tlan Imass boncasters, Vampiric power ability
#62
Abyss 
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Posted 19 May 2006 - 01:35 PM
When he wakes up in GotM, Raest does some pretty heavy exposition on his domination techniques and tendencies. I agree with the above that this was not a typical Jaghut ability or trait.
Another point made is that if/when Raest grabbed Mammot, a High Priest of D'rek, he might be able to dominate the goddess herself. As an aside, but relevant, look at what happened to Fener because of a link to Heboric, a former High Priest. Point being, drawing power forges links, bonds or channels. Different forms and different strengths, but the Jaghut tyrant domination power thing can take advantage of these.
In TB, QB makes the point to ST (acronymsfeste!!!!) that his sister tried, and failed, to break to bonds of blood or family or something similarly cuddly.
So in an undead people, who were made undead by their blood-related clan wizard bonecasters, the bond is stronger, or different, and vulnerable. Now let's be clear - it also carries with it a whole bunch of advantages.... near invulnerability, strength, the ability to become your own dustbuster... so obviously the Bonecasters thought it was worth the risk.
Plus don't overlook that when they went against Raest at a minimum, the Imass had other Jaghut helping them.
- Abyss, bloody-minded about the whole thing.
Another point made is that if/when Raest grabbed Mammot, a High Priest of D'rek, he might be able to dominate the goddess herself. As an aside, but relevant, look at what happened to Fener because of a link to Heboric, a former High Priest. Point being, drawing power forges links, bonds or channels. Different forms and different strengths, but the Jaghut tyrant domination power thing can take advantage of these.
In TB, QB makes the point to ST (acronymsfeste!!!!) that his sister tried, and failed, to break to bonds of blood or family or something similarly cuddly.
So in an undead people, who were made undead by their blood-related clan wizard bonecasters, the bond is stronger, or different, and vulnerable. Now let's be clear - it also carries with it a whole bunch of advantages.... near invulnerability, strength, the ability to become your own dustbuster... so obviously the Bonecasters thought it was worth the risk.
Plus don't overlook that when they went against Raest at a minimum, the Imass had other Jaghut helping them.
- Abyss, bloody-minded about the whole thing.
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#63 Guest_Swordbearer_*
Posted 19 May 2006 - 02:40 PM
Points regarding Jaghut Tyrants, Imass, other Non Tyrant Jaghut, Involvment of F/Assail?.
To backtrack a little. simplified progression of events, sorry for the repetion of what everyone allready knows.
First... Insurmountingly rare Jaghut tyrant born, One in a million, in a population numbering in the thousands. but cannot dominate own kind. Own race is Immune!.
Second... J.T dominates beasts then Imass, time passes gets caught finally, Imass alies with reg non tyrant Jaghut to bring down tyrant/tyrant's.
this is where Rock=Jaghut tyrant Paper=reg Jaghut, Scissors=Imass scenario plays out
Third...Tyrants all dealt with thanks to non tyrant Jaghuts help {Paper covers Rock}, Imass realize there will allways be a chance for other tyrant's as long as race of Jaghut not extinct, Imass turn on all Jaghut, Mass pogrom, war unnending, Jaghut fight back, mass starvation, Ritual of Tellan.
Fourth... Undead T'lan Imass decimate Jaghut {Scissors cuts paper}, reduce allready small jaghut population to near extinction. chance of another Tyrant being born statisticly near zero.
All this I think everyone can agree on.
Fact. Bonecasters are no doubt even more powerfull than they were at time of tyrants, because of or due to the T'lan Ritual and the amount of time a millenia gathering power sources. Plantings. they are Uber without a doubt.
But they still have a weakness towards being dominated by Tyrants {Rock smashes Scissors}. Now though there are no reg Jaghut, immune to tyrants powers, to help take any Tyrants that the combined Imass/Jaghut imprisoned that break out.
As for Tool, he was the only T'lan Imass involved within reach of Raest.
And sad to say, expendible.
Still Being T'lan and First Sword well able to defend himself and against those in opposition to freeing Raest and actualy disolve the ward with Adj Lorns help in the form of her ottataral sword.
I believe the other Imass Bonecasters set up planned and used the convergence of power at Darughistan. Rake & his Andii, the T'Orud Cabal, Dujecs army, the new Azath house, even gods ie Oppon. etc. to help get rid of Raest once and for all.
To backtrack a little. simplified progression of events, sorry for the repetion of what everyone allready knows.
First... Insurmountingly rare Jaghut tyrant born, One in a million, in a population numbering in the thousands. but cannot dominate own kind. Own race is Immune!.
Second... J.T dominates beasts then Imass, time passes gets caught finally, Imass alies with reg non tyrant Jaghut to bring down tyrant/tyrant's.
this is where Rock=Jaghut tyrant Paper=reg Jaghut, Scissors=Imass scenario plays out
Third...Tyrants all dealt with thanks to non tyrant Jaghuts help {Paper covers Rock}, Imass realize there will allways be a chance for other tyrant's as long as race of Jaghut not extinct, Imass turn on all Jaghut, Mass pogrom, war unnending, Jaghut fight back, mass starvation, Ritual of Tellan.
Fourth... Undead T'lan Imass decimate Jaghut {Scissors cuts paper}, reduce allready small jaghut population to near extinction. chance of another Tyrant being born statisticly near zero.
All this I think everyone can agree on.
Fact. Bonecasters are no doubt even more powerfull than they were at time of tyrants, because of or due to the T'lan Ritual and the amount of time a millenia gathering power sources. Plantings. they are Uber without a doubt.
But they still have a weakness towards being dominated by Tyrants {Rock smashes Scissors}. Now though there are no reg Jaghut, immune to tyrants powers, to help take any Tyrants that the combined Imass/Jaghut imprisoned that break out.
As for Tool, he was the only T'lan Imass involved within reach of Raest.
And sad to say, expendible.
Still Being T'lan and First Sword well able to defend himself and against those in opposition to freeing Raest and actualy disolve the ward with Adj Lorns help in the form of her ottataral sword.
I believe the other Imass Bonecasters set up planned and used the convergence of power at Darughistan. Rake & his Andii, the T'Orud Cabal, Dujecs army, the new Azath house, even gods ie Oppon. etc. to help get rid of Raest once and for all.
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Posted 19 May 2006 - 03:56 PM
I like your r-p-s analogy, but i don't think the other bonecasters were involved.
In the end, it took the combined efforts of Rake, Krul, Tool and WJ's squad to weaken Raest enough for the Azath to grab him.
Tool did attack Raest inside of Kruppe's dream. Someone remind me whether Pran Chole (pre-ritual, in dream mode) was there when that happened...
- Abyss, wonders if Pran Chole is a soletaken prawn.
In the end, it took the combined efforts of Rake, Krul, Tool and WJ's squad to weaken Raest enough for the Azath to grab him.
Tool did attack Raest inside of Kruppe's dream. Someone remind me whether Pran Chole (pre-ritual, in dream mode) was there when that happened...
- Abyss, wonders if Pran Chole is a soletaken prawn.
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#65
Monoch Ochem
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Posted 19 May 2006 - 04:24 PM
I thought Pran Chole was a ranag or some antlered beast.... anyway, I don't think Pran Chole was there the second time Abyss. Iirc, the first time was where the Mhybe came (Kruppe, K'rul and Pran Chole were there). Then they found the Tattersail/Nightchill/Bellurdan creature, burnt etc.
The second time was after Silannah and etc. ceased their attack with head bowed then Raest entered the dream world with K'rul, Kruppe and I think Tool as well. I don't recall Pran Chole being there.
Now the nest thing is, I know that Tool was clanless and all but wouldn't the Imass know about Raest's release through him? Recall, the plan was a gamble against Rake. The belief was that Rake could dispatch Raest but he'd have been so hardly pressed that he wouldn't be able to aid the Daru against the Malazan annexation, post-Raest's assault on Darujhistan. So the Bonecasters may well have known but did nothing because they expected Rake to dispatch Raest, which would no doubt have been....'acceptable'.
In any event, you never know....Imass may have been around, lying in wait just to make sure. Moreover, didn't Tool get their implied permission when he created the influence of Tellann around that area in order to ensure they were unopposed...the one that incinerated Tattersail? I know he said something about it being a privilege of being First Sword and all but other Imass must have felt it, even if they didn't generate it themselves. So they must have known and agreed.
The second time was after Silannah and etc. ceased their attack with head bowed then Raest entered the dream world with K'rul, Kruppe and I think Tool as well. I don't recall Pran Chole being there.
Now the nest thing is, I know that Tool was clanless and all but wouldn't the Imass know about Raest's release through him? Recall, the plan was a gamble against Rake. The belief was that Rake could dispatch Raest but he'd have been so hardly pressed that he wouldn't be able to aid the Daru against the Malazan annexation, post-Raest's assault on Darujhistan. So the Bonecasters may well have known but did nothing because they expected Rake to dispatch Raest, which would no doubt have been....'acceptable'.
In any event, you never know....Imass may have been around, lying in wait just to make sure. Moreover, didn't Tool get their implied permission when he created the influence of Tellann around that area in order to ensure they were unopposed...the one that incinerated Tattersail? I know he said something about it being a privilege of being First Sword and all but other Imass must have felt it, even if they didn't generate it themselves. So they must have known and agreed.
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