Help
After re-reading the release of Dejim Nebrahl I noticed that Lady/sister Spite Using the power of Starvald Demelain in the form of entropy otherwise known as Ottataral to release the wards on DN.
So did she was she the one who spiked the Ottataral dragon and drank of its blood to gain Eleint & Ottataral mastery. :eek:
Being as the dragon is stil alive, as noted by Pearl & Lostara so it can still serve as a source for the Ottataral warren,
as Ampelas was /is? the Emurlahn source for the Edur sorcery.
Lady Spite & use of S D power.
#2 Guest_Danyah_*
Posted 14 May 2006 - 09:02 AM
Otataral is no warren, it's an ore. There is no mastering otataral as a way of magic IMO, since it's a bane of magic. Dunno.
#3
Tiger_sword 
- First Sword
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 582
- Joined: 17-November 04
- Location:England
Posted 14 May 2006 - 09:17 AM
We know that other NO's used more than one warren in their release ritual. Prehaps she used SD and then used Otataral in some other way (sword maybe). The use of all those warrens weakened the magic holding him then the Otataral was the final blow. Also using a tool to add Otataral may have given her time to escape (as she was the only one to escape).
#4
tiam
- Ascendant
-
- Group: Mott Irregulars
- Posts: 3,953
- Joined: 26-January 06
Posted 14 May 2006 - 09:38 AM
no i agree that SD is otateralbut the way that the thread starter claims that the OD created an otateral warren is untrue. If someone can findthe quote in the prologue is also thought it was odd and have ome up with a theory.
We know otateral is an ore thats created when the concentration of magic reaches a certain level and destroy magical essence (such as the force that magic feeds off.) and leaves otateral which in turn takes away that magical essence in other places therefore negating magic. Elder magic works off different energies such as heborics POV that magical essenceas are layered. Therefore due to this layering otateral is ineffective or less effective (depending on how much otateral is there like a whole island of otateral can sort of combat elder magic.) it is also evident that elder magic dwarves younger warren magic (e.g. we hear reports of magic failing in the north of the genabackan campaign in the face of eldermagic.) Any way at the base of all magic there is SD which is constanty refered to as the first warren. so we know that this is at the base of all magic. we see into kruls veins in MOI and we see that the warrens are his veins and the main vains in his heart are the tow eldest warrens SD and KG. Form this we can specualate that if you go through all he warrens at the very base here will be SD as it is the main base of the vein. in conclusion there is SD at the base of all warrens and otateral stems from SD due to it being in existence when magic has drained all magical essence away.
plz read this as it took me ages to theorise this. is theorise a word?
We know otateral is an ore thats created when the concentration of magic reaches a certain level and destroy magical essence (such as the force that magic feeds off.) and leaves otateral which in turn takes away that magical essence in other places therefore negating magic. Elder magic works off different energies such as heborics POV that magical essenceas are layered. Therefore due to this layering otateral is ineffective or less effective (depending on how much otateral is there like a whole island of otateral can sort of combat elder magic.) it is also evident that elder magic dwarves younger warren magic (e.g. we hear reports of magic failing in the north of the genabackan campaign in the face of eldermagic.) Any way at the base of all magic there is SD which is constanty refered to as the first warren. so we know that this is at the base of all magic. we see into kruls veins in MOI and we see that the warrens are his veins and the main vains in his heart are the tow eldest warrens SD and KG. Form this we can specualate that if you go through all he warrens at the very base here will be SD as it is the main base of the vein. in conclusion there is SD at the base of all warrens and otateral stems from SD due to it being in existence when magic has drained all magical essence away.
plz read this as it took me ages to theorise this. is theorise a word?
#5
tiam
- Ascendant
-
- Group: Mott Irregulars
- Posts: 3,953
- Joined: 26-January 06
Posted 14 May 2006 - 09:38 AM
no i agree that SD is otateralbut the way that the thread starter claims that the OD created an otateral warren is untrue. If someone can findthe quote in the prologue is also thought it was odd and have ome up with a theory.
We know otateral is an ore thats created when the concentration of magic reaches a certain level and destroy magical essence (such as the force that magic feeds off.) and leaves otateral which in turn takes away that magical essence in other places therefore negating magic. Elder magic works off different energies such as heborics POV that magical essenceas are layered. Therefore due to this layering otateral is ineffective or less effective (depending on how much otateral is there like a whole island of otateral can sort of combat elder magic.) it is also evident that elder magic dwarves younger warren magic (e.g. we hear reports of magic failing in the north of the genabackan campaign in the face of eldermagic.) Any way at the base of all magic there is SD which is constanty refered to as the first warren. so we know that this is at the base of all magic. we see into kruls veins in MOI and we see that the warrens are his veins and the main vains in his heart are the tow eldest warrens SD and KG. Form this we can specualate that if you go through all he warrens at the very base here will be SD as it is the main base of the vein. in conclusion there is SD at the base of all warrens and otateral stems from SD due to it being in existence when magic has drained all magical essence away.
plz read this as it took me ages to theorise this. is theorise a word?
We know otateral is an ore thats created when the concentration of magic reaches a certain level and destroy magical essence (such as the force that magic feeds off.) and leaves otateral which in turn takes away that magical essence in other places therefore negating magic. Elder magic works off different energies such as heborics POV that magical essenceas are layered. Therefore due to this layering otateral is ineffective or less effective (depending on how much otateral is there like a whole island of otateral can sort of combat elder magic.) it is also evident that elder magic dwarves younger warren magic (e.g. we hear reports of magic failing in the north of the genabackan campaign in the face of eldermagic.) Any way at the base of all magic there is SD which is constanty refered to as the first warren. so we know that this is at the base of all magic. we see into kruls veins in MOI and we see that the warrens are his veins and the main vains in his heart are the tow eldest warrens SD and KG. Form this we can specualate that if you go through all he warrens at the very base here will be SD as it is the main base of the vein. in conclusion there is SD at the base of all warrens and otateral stems from SD due to it being in existence when magic has drained all magical essence away.
plz read this as it took me ages to theorise this. is theorise a word?
#7
fan_83
- First Sword
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 680
- Joined: 05-January 03
Posted 14 May 2006 - 02:23 PM
the ritual as a whole brought the concentration of magic in the area to be concentrated enough adn diverse enough so that when spike envoked sd, it cause the entropy effect that is otatarel.. cause and effect i believe
#8
- Group: Unregistered / Not Logged In
Posted 14 May 2006 - 02:47 PM
I agree with namo here....
... it is the combination of twelve warrens that creates the otataral... which is why it is a bane to magic.
it's not just an ore. There is an otataral dragon remember? She exists. and I go back to another pet theory that it is Tiam.. and aspected of all..
... it is the combination of twelve warrens that creates the otataral... which is why it is a bane to magic.
Quote
Otataral is no warren, it's an ore. There is no mastering otataral as a way of magic IMO, since it's a bane of magic. Dunno.
it's not just an ore. There is an otataral dragon remember? She exists. and I go back to another pet theory that it is Tiam.. and aspected of all..
#9
MUC1
- Recruit
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 11
- Joined: 15-April 06
Posted 14 May 2006 - 04:33 PM
Some of you refer to the "entropy" effect of otataral. Entropy is a measure of disorder, so I don't see how that would have anything to do with otataral, which only seems to negate the effects of magic, unless it negates the effects of magic by causing it to become disordered, and thus chaotic and without any focus.
#10
- Group: Unregistered / Not Logged In
Posted 14 May 2006 - 04:38 PM
yep... hence K'rul 's blood... order from chaos... focus..channels..warrens.
#11 Guest_Swordbearer_*
Posted 14 May 2006 - 08:15 PM
Ok maybe I mis-read but here's Spite's verbalism.
She said 'In the name of the Warren of Starvald Demelain, I invoke the ritual of release.' And from her words decended, through dead tree root, through stone and sand, disolving ward afterward, a force of entropy,known to the world as otataral.
you can see the key phrase's that brought me to my theory?. and from her words decended yada yada yada a force of entropy, known to the world as otataral
This seems to suggest it was by her words alone that the otataral was created to disolve the wards, not and her words caused a bucket containing otataral do dump on DN's prison to disolve the wards
Another point of interest to me is the description of her.
They waited for the twelfth Nameless One to speak. Yet she said nothing, instead reaching out a slim rust-red, scaled hand that was any-thing but human.
And Dejim Nebrahl sensed a presence. An intelligence, cold and brutal, seeping down from above, and the D'ivers was suddenly afraid.
and after hearing her voice Fear became terror.
In my mind {Where I am a legend by the way} I am allso sure she could have released DN all by herself, the only reason the others were there at all was to provide sustenance for DN.
This was allso an elaborate ruse on her part &ST's? to be able to lay the blame/ deflect attention from? for DN's release on the Nameless Ones,
I furthermore think she's got her own agenda. She wanted to get her mitts on Mappo for some reason. She gambled on DN being unable to Kill Mappo outright, she seems to be cooperating with Shadowthrone on this as she seems to have made a deal with ST for help for Mappo. as per St and Cott's conversation that took place after St belatedly sent Pust to help Mappo.
'I'm a little stretched!' The shreik echoe'd away and the god subsided.
'Do you think he'll get there in time?'
'No'
'Do you think, if he does, he'll be sufficient?'
'No'
'Who asked you?'
Mappos lucky Moggara was there.
Gawd I'm a long winded bugger.
She said 'In the name of the Warren of Starvald Demelain, I invoke the ritual of release.' And from her words decended, through dead tree root, through stone and sand, disolving ward afterward, a force of entropy,known to the world as otataral.
you can see the key phrase's that brought me to my theory?. and from her words decended yada yada yada a force of entropy, known to the world as otataral
This seems to suggest it was by her words alone that the otataral was created to disolve the wards, not and her words caused a bucket containing otataral do dump on DN's prison to disolve the wards
Another point of interest to me is the description of her.
They waited for the twelfth Nameless One to speak. Yet she said nothing, instead reaching out a slim rust-red, scaled hand that was any-thing but human.
And Dejim Nebrahl sensed a presence. An intelligence, cold and brutal, seeping down from above, and the D'ivers was suddenly afraid.
and after hearing her voice Fear became terror.
In my mind {Where I am a legend by the way} I am allso sure she could have released DN all by herself, the only reason the others were there at all was to provide sustenance for DN.
This was allso an elaborate ruse on her part &ST's? to be able to lay the blame/ deflect attention from? for DN's release on the Nameless Ones,
I furthermore think she's got her own agenda. She wanted to get her mitts on Mappo for some reason. She gambled on DN being unable to Kill Mappo outright, she seems to be cooperating with Shadowthrone on this as she seems to have made a deal with ST for help for Mappo. as per St and Cott's conversation that took place after St belatedly sent Pust to help Mappo.
'I'm a little stretched!' The shreik echoe'd away and the god subsided.
'Do you think he'll get there in time?'
'No'
'Do you think, if he does, he'll be sufficient?'
'No'
'Who asked you?'
Mappos lucky Moggara was there.
Gawd I'm a long winded bugger.
#12
fan_83
- First Sword
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 680
- Joined: 05-January 03
Posted 14 May 2006 - 10:13 PM
actually you ignored the part about the other mages invoking hteir warrens as well..
if the nameless ones know that htey are to be food, then why bother with the ritual at all.. they could jsut stand htere or send in some goats or old man to be eaten.. no need for 12 high mages to be eaten unless its necessary..
also spite is a draconean soletaken.. they are the basic top of the food chain animal.. even the deragoth run from a dragon which is osserc. so dejim fearing spite is nothing surprising.
i sitll believe that the 12 high mages are required as they provide the saturation point before sd cause it to become otatarel
also if sd is otatarel then rake would have no trouble annihilating the mages at pale.. he jsut have to spew otatearel and all the mages attackig him would be sitting ducks for him to practice throwing rocks..
if the nameless ones know that htey are to be food, then why bother with the ritual at all.. they could jsut stand htere or send in some goats or old man to be eaten.. no need for 12 high mages to be eaten unless its necessary..
also spite is a draconean soletaken.. they are the basic top of the food chain animal.. even the deragoth run from a dragon which is osserc. so dejim fearing spite is nothing surprising.
i sitll believe that the 12 high mages are required as they provide the saturation point before sd cause it to become otatarel
also if sd is otatarel then rake would have no trouble annihilating the mages at pale.. he jsut have to spew otatearel and all the mages attackig him would be sitting ducks for him to practice throwing rocks..
#13
- Group: Unregistered / Not Logged In
Posted 14 May 2006 - 10:25 PM
yep she has her own agenda
dunno why she would need to be able to lay blame/deflect attention from herself... why would she need to do that? to lay the blame on the Nameless Idiots? that does not make sense.
but the rest of the stuff... if she's powerful enough to release him on her own, she doesn't need the others.. sustenance she could find in other ways....and so could Dejim N...
the rest of the stuff... 'and from her words' etc.. I take that to mean that as the twelfth one to speak rather than any significance to it being her in particular.
and referring to the calling down of the crippled god... the mages used there...
wasn't the quote 'some say seven some say twelve..'? I'm pretty sure that's correct.. so perhaps those numbers have a significance... in fact... GotM.... Tattersail, Calot, Hairlock, Bellurdan, A'Karonys, Nightchill, Tayschrenn.. that's seven mages.... hmmm... need to ponder a little more on this methinks
dunno why she would need to be able to lay blame/deflect attention from herself... why would she need to do that? to lay the blame on the Nameless Idiots? that does not make sense.
but the rest of the stuff... if she's powerful enough to release him on her own, she doesn't need the others.. sustenance she could find in other ways....and so could Dejim N...
the rest of the stuff... 'and from her words' etc.. I take that to mean that as the twelfth one to speak rather than any significance to it being her in particular.
and referring to the calling down of the crippled god... the mages used there...
wasn't the quote 'some say seven some say twelve..'? I'm pretty sure that's correct.. so perhaps those numbers have a significance... in fact... GotM.... Tattersail, Calot, Hairlock, Bellurdan, A'Karonys, Nightchill, Tayschrenn.. that's seven mages.... hmmm... need to ponder a little more on this methinks
#14
Illuyankas
- Retro Classic
-
- Group: The Hateocracy of Truth
- Posts: 7,254
- Joined: 28-September 04
- Will cluck you up
Posted 15 May 2006 - 04:06 AM
Either Kallor or Ruin stated eight mages as a known figure, I'll have to check that later.
Besides, the Nameless Idiots could have been relying on Spite's protection from the Deji, but as she was planning to betray them anyway, she could have gone along with it up until it was too late for them. Also could explain Veed's realisation of Spite's betrayal, if she was meant to leave with the others instead of on her own.
Besides, the Nameless Idiots could have been relying on Spite's protection from the Deji, but as she was planning to betray them anyway, she could have gone along with it up until it was too late for them. Also could explain Veed's realisation of Spite's betrayal, if she was meant to leave with the others instead of on her own.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#15 Guest_Swordbearer_*
Posted 15 May 2006 - 04:16 AM
11 other mages fed to DN good way to get rid of some of the oposition, especialy as I believe the release was the nameless idiots plan to start with Spite just co-opted it to further her's and ST's own ends.
Top of the food chain in that world? :eek: ... Daddy in a sword He made, Scabby with a gaping hole where the back of his Elient soltaken head used to be, Silchas stuffed in a Azath barrow for an eternity one which he allmost didn't escape from, if he hadn't had help the 3 Toblakai Gods. would a Grind ees bones to make they bread so to speak.
They proved to her how wrong that assumtion was. Not to mention the hords of dead/imprisoned supposedly uber-powerful soltaken plus some Eleint, just in case she'd had a blond moment.
Best way to not get et is to not! be noticed till after the knife, sword,club,spear,arrow or magick spell turns your enemies into so much fertilizer.
Q: 'Just how do you take down a 600lb bear with a bow grampa?'
A: 'well punkin, ya just hide real good, then when he aint watchin ya draw back reeeeal slow like, then whamo! he dont even have time to call out for the Medic's... Ahhh oh sorry punkin, I mean he dont even know what hit im. :ehh:
Top of the food chain in that world? :eek: ... Daddy in a sword He made, Scabby with a gaping hole where the back of his Elient soltaken head used to be, Silchas stuffed in a Azath barrow for an eternity one which he allmost didn't escape from, if he hadn't had help the 3 Toblakai Gods. would a Grind ees bones to make they bread so to speak.
They proved to her how wrong that assumtion was. Not to mention the hords of dead/imprisoned supposedly uber-powerful soltaken plus some Eleint, just in case she'd had a blond moment
.Best way to not get et is to not! be noticed till after the knife, sword,club,spear,arrow or magick spell turns your enemies into so much fertilizer.
Q: 'Just how do you take down a 600lb bear with a bow grampa?'
A: 'well punkin, ya just hide real good, then when he aint watchin ya draw back reeeeal slow like, then whamo! he dont even have time to call out for the Medic's... Ahhh oh sorry punkin, I mean he dont even know what hit im. :ehh:
#16
tiam
- Ascendant
-
- Group: Mott Irregulars
- Posts: 3,953
- Joined: 26-January 06
Posted 15 May 2006 - 06:16 AM
Illuyankas said:
Either Kallor or Ruin stated eight mages as a known figure, I'll have to check that later.
Besides, the Nameless Idiots could have been relying on Spite's protection from the Deji, but as she was planning to betray them anyway, she could have gone along with it up until it was too late for them. Also could explain Veed's realisation of Spite's betrayal, if she was meant to leave with the others instead of on her own.
Besides, the Nameless Idiots could have been relying on Spite's protection from the Deji, but as she was planning to betray them anyway, she could have gone along with it up until it was too late for them. Also could explain Veed's realisation of Spite's betrayal, if she was meant to leave with the others instead of on her own.
I dont think that it was officially stated that there were 8 mages. i thought the whole some say 7 some say 12 was the only thing we had.
Crazy theory
QB called down the CG. he has 7 warrens and 12 souls inside of him. also we know he has a secret as cotillion seems very weary of QB preference to bloody sacrifice.
lol ok maybe not
#17
fan_83
- First Sword
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 680
- Joined: 05-January 03
Posted 15 May 2006 - 12:44 PM
swordbearer: silchas could take out 3 toblakai gods in the time it takes for IB to heal.. and form what IB described, Silchas could take out all 5 without a problem..
and although dragons are top of the food chain htey are not invincible.. they are super tough andhtey have a natural advantage against others..
silchas was stuck in an azath after he was tired fighting, got stabbed in the back by scabby and wasn;t killed
draconus was killed by rake whom we knew as uber
scabby got wacked by an unknown although its speculated to be kil
and spite has enough power to wack dejim and dejim knew it
and although dragons are top of the food chain htey are not invincible.. they are super tough andhtey have a natural advantage against others..
silchas was stuck in an azath after he was tired fighting, got stabbed in the back by scabby and wasn;t killed
draconus was killed by rake whom we knew as uber
scabby got wacked by an unknown although its speculated to be kil
and spite has enough power to wack dejim and dejim knew it
#18 Guest_Daemon_*
Posted 15 May 2006 - 01:12 PM
fan_83 said:
draconus was killed by rake whom we knew as uber
Draconus was not killed by Rake. He got imprisoned in his own sword Dragnipur and is still inside.
It was not Rakes power alone, the sword played a vital role in the defeating of Draconus
#19
Tiger_sword
- First Sword
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 582
- Joined: 17-November 04
- Location:England
Posted 15 May 2006 - 01:26 PM
I seam to remember it being said that when a large amount of warren power is used otataral is created as a sort of mediator to control the magic. If twelve high mages were all casting strong spells then it is plausable that the otataral was created naturally to try and control it. Just a thought
#20
fan_83
- First Sword
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 680
- Joined: 05-January 03
Posted 15 May 2006 - 02:00 PM
daemon: from what we know of dragnipur, it does not icnreases the wielders power or skill or ability.. all it does is imprison the sould of the one gettting kebabed..
an also when rake went against draconus he was using grief i think and he defeated or managed to get dragnipur out of draconus hand before kebabibg him..
so we can tell that rake > draconus without dragnipur
an also when rake went against draconus he was using grief i think and he defeated or managed to get dragnipur out of draconus hand before kebabibg him..
so we can tell that rake > draconus without dragnipur
