Ratlover, on Feb 15 2009, 02:54 AM, said:
As to those who are debating the merits of capitalism and socialism it is my view that both are just two sides of the same filthy coin. Both define humanity in materialistic and economic terms and I think Erikson actually criticizes both the rampant pseudoindividualistic capitalism of the Letherii but also the hive-mind collectivism of the KCM and the Imass, he also clearly criticizes modern faith in technology and progress(thinking of Karsa's discussion with that woman he saves in tBH).
But while he criticizes technology and progress through Karsa, he also mentions over and over again that the Malazan Empire is not Karsa's enemy. This is just my opinion, but I get the feeling SE wants to emphasize the simple point that: they are the better alternative.
Ratlover, on Feb 15 2009, 02:54 AM, said:
Democracy and socialism both have terrible track records. Modern democratic and socialist states are notoriously unstable, prone to falling into tyranny and corruption, and are often more brutal and murderous than any crazy monarch has ever managed. They are just better at sanitizing and hiding their crimes.
I can't help but dissagree with this, except for the part about corruption (there is no such thing as a society without corruption). The way I see it, socialist democracies are about regulating the gap between rich and poor, and thus removing any potential for conflict, which makes them quite stable. But then again, as the picture gets more global, some countries are obviously way better off than others, so I guess it's not that simple.
And I'm not sure how they can be better at sanitizing and hiding their crimes, when they are generally much more open to the rest of the world than modern dictatorships.
I'm just generalizing here, since you didn't seem to be talking about any state(s) in particular. Also I am from Scandinavia, so obviously I am very biased towards socialism.
Ratlover, on Feb 15 2009, 02:54 AM, said:
Equality and classless societies are utopian pipe dreams along with an assortment of buzzwords used by demagogues to rally the faceless mob: freedom, liberty, patriotism, human rights, blah,blah, blah. There is always an elite few who will come into power;
You do have a point that it seems somewhat unrealistic for a classless utopian society to exist. However, I can't help but wonder what it would be like if 99% of the adult population had a university degree, and the unemployment rate was less than 1%. The faceless mob shouldn't be underestimated in their potential just because they're not living up to it.
Ratlover, on Feb 15 2009, 02:54 AM, said:
There is always an elite few who will come into power; the question is just what kind of system is most likely to create a quality elite. A well running monarchy creates leaders trained virtually from birth to rule and since a true monarch basically owns everything already he or she is by nature very hard to bribe. Ah well that's my two cents worth anyway.
A good point. Such a society would be very dependent on a benevolent and strong ruler though. And although he or she would be very hard to bribe, that doesn't mean he/she is incorruptible. It would depend largely on the size of the kingdom I guess.
To counter your reasoning, I could say that a society would be even better served by a democracy where all political leaders are expertly trained and very competent in their own responsibilites.
EDIT: Thanks for resurecting the thread by the way
This post has been edited by Urb: 15 February 2009 - 12:18 PM