[Smiles]

I'd also add that both Paran and Apsalar (she seems to be ascendant now), have both been touched by extraordinary events.

Paran tasted the blood of the Hounds and was a tool of Opon

Apsalar, well that’s evident, and now she seems to almost rival Cotillion.

So being touched by the gods or annealed in certain ways, i.e. Stormy, Gesler and Truth within the Elder Warren, can put you on the path.

[Smiles]

That was the Tanno Spiritwalker, he gave them a song. When Fidler returned to Rakaru, where the Bridgeburners were initially tempered, it completed a cycle, which brought about their Ascendancy.

It’s to do with the powerful magic that the Tanno are able to vocalise, but don't ask me how it works...

[Morgoth]

*Opens the book of lundin and intones in a deep, chanting voice* "The paths to ascendancy are many. There are little if any 'ingredients' that must present. Ascendancy seems to be the result of need as well as deed combined with the right sort of events taking place at the right time. Though neither of these are completly necessary, they seem to have an effect..

[fan_83]

*continues from morgoth*

with a big enough population, the odds that someone will be at the right place at the right time with the right aptitude will increase and thereby gives rise to ascendends.. and when enough ascendends occur, a champion among ascendends will rise..

gemmell explained it well in legend, when tenaka is talking with his charl after druss is dead. look it up

[Abyss]

'The paths to ascendency are many, and some are more subtle than others.' or something like that. Baruk, GotM.

Point being, there are apparently a LOT of ways to Ascend, but that doesn't mean that just anyone can do it. Plus, on the whole power-draws-power basis, people already on the path to Ascendency are that much more likely to obtain additional opportunities... so you have Stormy, apparently already a Sheidl Anvil to Fener or someone, being bad-a$$ enough to survive a horrible wound being healed by Heboric's jolly-jade-giant-tainted hands, bonded to a Tlan Imass because he was in the right place at the right time having survived the earlier events, passing thru Tellan and being bbq'd by an Elder God/draconic Imass/whatever she is, and THEN hanging out on a sorcery-ridden boat for a few weeks. And even then, he's not 'completely' ascended as far as we can see in TB.

Coltaine united the wickan tribes, led a relatively successful rebellion against Kellanved, and then the whole Chain of Dogs thing... the man had surpassed 'mere' human by all expectations, and that was enough to start him on the road.

As for the Bridgeburners... Raraku, everything after, Tanno song, buried in Moon's SPawn, MoD's blessing... that's a LOT.

But not every mage is an ascendent, nor is every soletaken apparently.

So in summary, it's complicated.

- Abyss, complicates things.

[Smiles]

Barbequed

[Folken]

ie...What Imperial Historian has been saying for god knows how freaking long. That whole passage between Ganoes and Hedge felt like IH went and made SE write it down lol

[Agraba]

I think it's just evolution in this world. Because the universe is run by raw sorceries that emanated from chaos, that's just the basis of the structuring of life. And as they evolve, the sorcery that they're made from grows more intricate, and they attain more special attributes. I'd say that in ten thousand years from the current timeframe in the series, an average human being will be what is considered an ascendant now.

Look at how every time an ancient creature escapes imprisonment, we always see in its mind how it knows it's superior to everything in the world, and plans its impending global domination, and then we see how easily it is taken down by modern things. Raest is one. So is Dejim Nebrhal. And back in the ancient times, guys like Anomander Rake and Silchas Ruin ruled the place. And now, he's being driven back by a single mage (Tayshcrenn), while that mage is also dealing with his own guys. Look at Shadowthrone. He's only about 100 years old, and already he's more powerful than so many ancient gods.

[Salivating Ruin]

I't seemed to me at one point that everyone we knew who had ascended had been through an Azath house. Specially after Admiral Nok's sit down talk with Tavore which included Kellanvad's operations within the house.
Can't remember the book.

Salivating Ruin - three things happen as you get older, first is loss of memory an I can't remember the other two!

[fan_83]

agraba: please reread gotm again.. rake pulled back cos he didn;t want to lose moon spawn.. he sprayed his power vs tay focused attack.. rake also killed the demons unleashed by tay.. if rake focused his power, tay would have been dust in gotm..

theres a difference between jsut spraying power instead of focusing his pwoer..

st is not powerful at all i mean otatarel, can neutralise all of st power;s. and meal would wipe out st with a wave.. st's advantage is his genius not his power..

i mean st pulled back with 5 of his hounds against rake alone.. and rake also is confident of beating st one on one.. hes only in doubt if cot is there as well..

please reread gotm

reast is way more powerful. especially he defeated a pure blood dragon and 4 others soletaken dragon not on full power.. and rake is not convinced he can face reast alone.. do keep in mind the prespective.. and hes defeated by a azath

[Morgoth]

I couldn't help but chuckle when you said that ST was not powerfull at all, and then go on to say that Rake was unsure whether he could win against ST and Cotillion.. Considering Rake's lvel of power, this speaks loads of the power of ST. Furthermore, just because ST's power is neutralized by otataral does not mean he is not imensly powerfull. It just means he is a user of younger warrens..

Korlat witnessed Tay's power at Coral and was awed. She even wondered how Rake could have withstood such power.. Yes, Rake diverted power during Pale, but so did Tay's.

And I think ST would have given Mael run for his money, just so that's said

In addition, I dunno if you've read NoK, but a certain scene in Mok's hold give a clear indication fo just how powerfull ST is.

All in all though, I agree that ST's true power lies in his genious, yet he is also imensly powerfull, and should not be underestimated I think

[Asandir]

Tehol the genius against the Edur
Kruppe the genius against the Malazans
Iskarul Pust the genius against the soletaken/D'ivers
and finally
Shadowthrone the genius against the Gods

[Abyss]

The point made more than once, usually by an Imass, is that the 'modern' gods and ascendants are powerful enough to deal with the 'ancient' Tyrants and powers that once required the Imass to go all undead to challenge.

Shadowthrone ascnded himself thru his own efforts, got control of a warren, including the Hounds. Rake is unsure he can beat ST with five Hounds, and/or Cotillion. Rake was also weakened by his fight with the Galayn Lord, a creature Tayshrenn STUCK IN A BOTTLE.

Point being, humans (and others, see Karsa) are hitting a point where a God or Tyrant cannot simply take over unchallenged. In the face of that development, the old powers like Elder Gods, draconic Tiste and others are not what they once were.

- Abyss, still what he once was not.