[pippin]

Monoch Ochem said:

Kilmandaros is definitely a 'she' Angel....she just sounds male (seems to be pretty tough too cracking Scabby's skull like that).

If Mael can face down the CG in terms of sorcery then I guess he could def. sort out Rhulad. In terms of martial skills however, we should not underestimate Rhulad. Not only is he amassing a horde of skills and getting better with each opponent, he's doing it as an ascendant so that introduces another multiple.

I'd sake Rake 'probably,' Silchas 'hopefully,' Osserc 'maybe'...even 'maybe not'. We really don't know that much about Osserc's abilities. He's powerful, yes, but how? Not 'how much'...'how'?

Isn't the CG still chained, therefore much weakened? I thought Mael would be unable to succesfully oppose the CG directly in a fair battle as it took a gathering of powers to defeat him the first time.

[Dolmen 2.0]

BTW Don't know if someone mentioned it before but Icarium himself admits that Traveller would have killed him, in his enraged state. That pretty much says it all about traveller and proves that dassem is King.

I also feel karsa would be able to defeat Iccy because of the revelation of his speed combined with his ottataral blood. He doesn't get tired and has the potential of becoming a warren to himself as was hinted at by the perish. His gonna become an iccy, thats my personal theory.

[GingerBreadMan]

People mention Icarium's comment all the time but I don't think it proves anything. Icarium has no idea how strong he really is, so he can't judge.

As far as Karsa goes, his otateral blood cannot block Elder Magic, and I doubt his warren could overcome Icariums physco rage that dominates T'lann Imass, QB, whole cities(who no doubt had more than a few mages).

[fan_83]

sigh: dolmen iccy in calm mode is unaware of the damage/power/potential of himself in crazy mode. calm iccy does not believe himself powerful enough to destroy cities, civilisations, entire armies of imass... but mad iccy does it with a wave of his sword( a couple of millions waves anyway)

karsa is tough, true, but against iccy no one can stand against him.. crazy iccy does not tire, does not get woudned, has a whirling whirlwind around him that shreds beings..
karsa may be immune against that but crazy iccy sword play as well as brite strength will probably break karsa's sword and htey iccy will kebab him

[dktorode]

Dolmen said:

BTW Don't know if someone mentioned it before but Icarium himself admits that Traveller would have killed him, in his enraged state. That pretty much says it all about traveller and proves that dassem is King.

when he made that statement i got the impression he was saying that traveller was his match but not neccessarily his better and thats in normal mode...although who is to say that icarium isnt fully aware of his potential...just not able to remember what he has done with it.

[GingerBreadMan]

if you cannot remember what you did in your rage you have no idea as to what you can do.

It's like knowing when you go physco that you can jump really high, but you have no idea how high.

[pippin]

The first time Karsa and Icarium fought, Icarium did disarm Karsa, which is more difficult than wounding/killing someone. Icarium does not wish to kill anyone unless he has gone berserk.

[Illuyankas]

Icarium only disarmed Karsa because Karsa's sword broke, not on purpose.

[dktorode]

GingerBreadMan said:

if you cannot remember what you did in your rage you have no idea as to what you can do.

It's like knowing when you go physco that you can jump really high, but you have no idea how high.

Yes but the million dollar question is wat does he know from BEFORE he attacked that azath house and got this memory sickness...if he remembered from before that attack and the resulting illness then he would know how strong he is, it might be that before the azath attack he could focus his rage and now its random rage...

The thing is we just dont know wat exactly is wrong with him....is the sickness his rage and memory loss...or could he always go super sayan and and now its not focussed anymore and he losses his memory!

so like i said...he MIGHT know exactly wat he is capable of, its just that he cant remember anymore what he gets up to..like a heavy night of dinking

[fan_83]

i believe that he remembers up to a certain extent, how far back is unknown or it may be sploteches...
a calm iccy killed an azath, in doing so he gone wonky and got a power boost... i believe that mad iccy is more powerful than determined iccy but not by much
normal iccy that we are used to seeing is way wya less powerful than determined iccy

calm iccy does not remember killing an azath as far as i know, therefore he does not remember his own power level while hes in determind mode..

if what i said make sense

[GingerBreadMan]

I'm pretty sure he doesn't remember the event with the Azath, in fact isn't his whole "quest" about finding out who he is?

[Dolmen 2.0]

GingerBreadMan said:

I'm pretty sure he doesn't remember the event with the Azath, in fact isn't his whole "quest" about finding out who he is?

His quest is indeed about finding out who he is but the thing is at different points he remembers different things. before entering the azath those travelling along with mappo and Icarium gathered enough pieces of the puzzle to know Icarium to be a threat to the azath. Whats stopping Icarium from remembering any of this? even if he constantly forgets it takes very little for him to remember alot.

With that said Icarium is at times fully aware of what he is capable of. Towards his enragement his vision regarding his abilities, capabilities and past deeds became clearer and clearer. He easily sensed the extent of travellers skill just by being in the presence of the field where travellers abilities/warren came to the fore. he picked the deceit of the shattered throne and saw the gral handler as an imposter.

In regards to Traveller/Dassem well before he was ascended he took on entire armies and that takes inhuman stamina and skill. as an ascendant with God-like power to draw upon I see him more than an equal to icarium. Throw vengeance into the equation and Dassem becomes unstoppable. SE has left a lot to question regarding Dassem becuase he cannot define the shear strength of the character without building up those who would face him.

[fan_83]

pre ascension, daseem do not have the imhuman stamina and strength that you talked about, he was merely an extremely skilled and charaismatic warrior/leader to gain the rank of first sword. remember in NOK, daseem needs 6 shield bearers to protect his flank while he goes after hte champions, if he is as good as you say, he wouldn't such shield bearers, and when he ascended, he has definitely grown in power such that he has enough pwoer to break free from hood, but not enough to attack hood directly. as otherwise he owuld due to his daughter being taken.. that lets me conclude that he is a powerful and skilled being but he is not in any way or form comparable to mad iccy who went crazy sends gods running for cover.

3 bonecaster >hood, iccy >3 bonecaster and their tribes

[Illuyankas]

First of all,

fan_83 said:

3 bonecaster >hood, iccy >3 bonecaster and their tribes

It wasn't three bonecasters that had Hood retrieving Gethol, it was the threat of the entire T'lan Imass army of Kron (which the Bonecasters were in contact with) invading Hood's realm, which would be pretty much lethal to a non-Elder entity (Jaghut or not, he's worshipped by humans, so has non-Elder power - see Poliel), not to mention ruining of one of the major gods in the war against the CG, crippling their efforts. I'm sure Hood knew that, even if the Imass were too arrogant to see it, or too sure in their bluff.

Also,

GingerBreadMan said:

As far as Karsa goes, his otateral blood cannot block Elder Magic, and I doubt his warren could overcome Icariums physco rage that dominates T'lann Imass, QB, whole cities(who no doubt had more than a few mages).

His warren can handle Elder magic, and even chaotic magic doesn't faze him. It may not be able to, but it's the best bet we've seen so far.

[GingerBreadMan]

How can he handle chaos magic?

By it's very definition, it cannot be "handled".

[fan_83]

hmm i don;t have moi with me so my memory might be wrong.

karsa: is able to shunt some of the magic aside, bh showed us that his otatarel + he is on his way to ascend gives him some protection against chaos magic

but the thing is the chaos magic he faced on the boat is a spillover effect not a concentrated one, so we still don;t know how he will face against iccy..

but i think he should be able to get past his whirlwind but will be slowed by it

[Abyss]

fan_83 said:

...a calm iccy killed an azath, in doing so he gone wonky and got a power boost...

Actually, somewhere, possibly GotM, the point is made that the Imass key to taking out Jaghut was to make them angry, as they would then strike indiscriminately and take each other out to a degree. So Jaghut were known for their temper, and Iccy is half Jaghut...

I think the battle crazy was already there. It just got worse post his attempt to free Gothos.

Interestingly, in DG the point is made that Mappo has gone all beserker battle nuts on a couple of occassions himself.

- Abyss, gets that way in useless meetings.

[GingerBreadMan]

Havn't T'lann Imass clans gone after Iccy in the past, and been smacked down?

[fan_83]

yup, plenty i think, the ones who died adn made up the bone starcase in HOC are the ones that got wacked by iccy i think