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add to that, the mother died after the father... by a few months?
Who died for Paran?
#21
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Posted 26 April 2006 - 05:48 PM
I think it was the mother too... "a death premature. Meaningless even"... and she died of a broken heart... whereas the father was unwell... therefore not meaningless.
add to that, the mother died after the father... by a few months?
add to that, the mother died after the father... by a few months?
#22
Set'alahd Crool 
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Posted 27 April 2006 - 12:36 PM
Hetan said:
I think it was the mother too... "a death premature. Meaningless even"... and she died of a broken heart... whereas the father was unwell... therefore not meaningless. 
add to that, the mother died after the father... by a few months?
add to that, the mother died after the father... by a few months?
Died of a broken heart? I took "Chose to join him" to be a euphemism for suicide, not some soul devouring love that dragged her through Hood's gate in the wake of her husband.
#23 Guest_Danyah_*
Posted 28 April 2006 - 12:52 PM
Convinced of suicide too. Can't Hood nudge someone to suicide.
#24
blewin
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Posted 29 April 2006 - 12:02 PM
but didn't Paran's mother die before the deal with made? sorry, maybe my time was all mixed up. I always think it's Tattersail. Although her soul's gone into somebody's body... she's still kind of dead.
#25
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 29 April 2006 - 12:09 PM
How can it be Tattersail? When the deal was made she hadn't even met Paran yet. Her death was as far from inconsequential as you can get. And it was a result of (I think) K'rul's manipulation, not Oponn, since K'rul was the god who took part in the creation of Silverfox.
#26 Guest_Danyah_*
Posted 29 April 2006 - 12:28 PM
It could be the father, it could be the mother if Hood pushed her to suicide. Everyone else is ridiculous.
Felisin, too far, to inconsequential;
Toc is still alive;
Tattersail: see Dol'Men;
WJ: leg wasn't broken, Hood already wanted him longtime;
Itkovian:duh;
Hairlock: double duh;
Lorn: inconsequential;
Felisin, too far, to inconsequential;
Toc is still alive;
Tattersail: see Dol'Men;
WJ: leg wasn't broken, Hood already wanted him longtime;
Itkovian:duh;
Hairlock: double duh;
Lorn: inconsequential;
#27
blewin
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Posted 01 May 2006 - 02:22 AM
Dolorous Menhir said:
How can it be Tattersail? When the deal was made she hadn't even met Paran yet. Her death was as far from inconsequential as you can get. And it was a result of (I think) K'rul's manipulation, not Oponn, since K'rul was the god who took part in the creation of Silverfox.
but that doesn't mean it has to be someone in the present and past. It can be someone from Paran's future since Tattersail did become someone important to him later on in the story.
#29
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 04 May 2006 - 10:23 PM
It. Was. Not. Tattersail.
#31 Guest_deonon_*
Posted 26 May 2006 - 05:17 AM
Personally I felt that the way the original Adjunct died fulfilled both criteria of being in Paran's shadow (as in both working with him and following after him) and dying a fairly pointless death.
#32
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 27 May 2006 - 08:04 PM
The criterion was not a "pointless" death, it was "insignificant". The death of the Adjunct was not - for it lead to the appointment of Tavore.
#33
Nameless Dhenrabi
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Posted 13 July 2006 - 12:53 PM
I was reading the prologue of DH again, and I found what I think to be a telling quote on who traded souls with Paran, that I don't think has been mentioned yet:
from pg 26:
"In any case," Heboric continued to Felisin, "it's my guess your sister the Adjunct plans on your getting to the slave ships in one piece. Your brother disapearing on Genabackis took the life out of your father...so I've heard," he added, grinning.
I think this quote pretty much solidifies the person as his father, at least in my mind. How was Oponn to know that his death would have such far-reaching consequences?
from pg 26:
"In any case," Heboric continued to Felisin, "it's my guess your sister the Adjunct plans on your getting to the slave ships in one piece. Your brother disapearing on Genabackis took the life out of your father...so I've heard," he added, grinning.
I think this quote pretty much solidifies the person as his father, at least in my mind. How was Oponn to know that his death would have such far-reaching consequences?
#34 Guest_Gondring_*
Posted 28 July 2006 - 10:52 PM
Nice quote. That hammers it out for me that it was his father.
I read a reply earlier of what if Paran found out it was his father from Shadowthrone or Oponn?
Im pretty sure hed do everything in his power to take them out of the Deck of Dragons. Probably have a better chance with the unaligned Twins than with Shadowthrone.
Alas thats just my silly guess. He is Master of the Deck after all.
I read a reply earlier of what if Paran found out it was his father from Shadowthrone or Oponn?
Im pretty sure hed do everything in his power to take them out of the Deck of Dragons. Probably have a better chance with the unaligned Twins than with Shadowthrone.
Alas thats just my silly guess. He is Master of the Deck after all.
#35
Cedeos
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Posted 09 August 2006 - 08:57 PM
Sorry, but I vote for Lorn.
Just a few quotes within two pages where Lorn dies that fit to
"meaningless death", "someone close to Paran, who walks in his shadow"
GotM, p.678 and 679, UK PB
"'What a waste!' she [Lorn] cursed. 'No, not like this'"
"Something had drawn him to her unerringly, a final closing of the mysterious link between them."
"'Do you see ... the irony, Ganoes Paran?'"
"'No...glorious end...for the Adjunct'"
"Ill luck, knowing me, Adjunct"
From my point of view Erikson just wants to pronounce the facts, that the Adjunct's death was meaningless and that she was linked so close to Paran and knowing him proved more or less fatal for her. See my point?
Just a few quotes within two pages where Lorn dies that fit to
"meaningless death", "someone close to Paran, who walks in his shadow"
GotM, p.678 and 679, UK PB
"'What a waste!' she [Lorn] cursed. 'No, not like this'"
"Something had drawn him to her unerringly, a final closing of the mysterious link between them."
"'Do you see ... the irony, Ganoes Paran?'"
"'No...glorious end...for the Adjunct'"
"Ill luck, knowing me, Adjunct"
From my point of view Erikson just wants to pronounce the facts, that the Adjunct's death was meaningless and that she was linked so close to Paran and knowing him proved more or less fatal for her. See my point?
#36
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 10 August 2006 - 06:52 PM
Lorn died after Paran was resurrected, long after.
I really think an "exchange" of souls means the one who died in order for Paran to live died right there and then, at the time of the resurrection, not later. And his father is the only candidate who may have died in that period.
And again, Lorn's death was not "meaningless". She was the Adjunct to the Empress. Her removal led to the appointment of Tavore and the disgrace of the family Paran.
Paran's father on the other hand, had no such importance. And he was already dying at the time of the resurrection...
I really think an "exchange" of souls means the one who died in order for Paran to live died right there and then, at the time of the resurrection, not later. And his father is the only candidate who may have died in that period.
And again, Lorn's death was not "meaningless". She was the Adjunct to the Empress. Her removal led to the appointment of Tavore and the disgrace of the family Paran.
Paran's father on the other hand, had no such importance. And he was already dying at the time of the resurrection...
#37
GardenGnome
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Posted 10 August 2006 - 06:58 PM
Cedeos said:
"Ill luck, knowing me, Adjunct"
From my point of view Erikson just wants to pronounce the facts, that the Adjunct's death was meaningless and that she was linked so close to Paran and knowing him proved more or less fatal for her. See my point?
From my point of view Erikson just wants to pronounce the facts, that the Adjunct's death was meaningless and that she was linked so close to Paran and knowing him proved more or less fatal for her. See my point?
In other thoughs, would carrying the sword after a while turn him into an ascendant? Being enstranged from everyone else, it might lead to the determination/state of mind needed for ascendancy...
#39 Guest_KaL_*
Posted 13 September 2006 - 07:39 AM
I'd definately vote for Lorn or Felsin, a soul in exchange doesn't necessarily mean that exact instance. The decades are but seconds to the goods etc etc.
Lorn because of the way in which she died and in a way her death was insignifigant or pointless.
Felsin
Lorn because of the way in which she died and in a way her death was insignifigant or pointless.
Felsin
Spoiler
#40
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 13 September 2006 - 04:22 PM
KaL, this is the Gardens of the Moons forum. Mark events that occur three books later with spoiler tags please.
Just to reiterate, Lorn's death was NOT INSIGNIFICANT. She was the Adjunct to the Empress!
Seriously, it was father Paran.
Just to reiterate, Lorn's death was NOT INSIGNIFICANT. She was the Adjunct to the Empress!
Seriously, it was father Paran.
