[Urko Crust]

Couldnt think which forum to post this in, this one seemed most appropriate.
At the beggining of DG on the boat to 7C there is reference to some telepathic ability between fiddler and kalam developed through years of working together. what is this all about? it is never mentioned again.

[Folken]

Its not telepathic. They just know eachother well enough to not warrant any words between them in certain situations. They just know what the other is going to do, nothing more. The telepathic reference was just a way to explain things.

[Abyss]

Agreed. I suppose you could infer from them both going thru Raraku with the BBs that it's something more shared between all the BBs, but I took it to just mean a familiarity from years of fighting together.

- Abyss, has drinking buddies like that.

[Limaris]

When I read that passage I had taken it at face value, that they had experienced many things together that it was second nature to them what each other was thinking, I am in agreement with Jen'isand Rul, yet as Abyss raises, there relationship with Raraku is something I don't think we can ignore, and leads me on to a query of my own.

We have constant references throughout the six books so far that Raraku changed them. And I was wondering if anyone had answers or theories as to why it did, and exactly how it has changed them? (I do not mean to steal the focus away from the opening post)

[Abyss]

Danyah said:

It's a psychological change. They became a group, dedicated to Whiskeyjack. Whatever their past,the bridges to it were burnt, the connection severed, and they were reborn as a group, harder, tougher, singular minds. They became a fighting family, with only one option, dying, because there was nothing to return to.

I totally agree with this, but i also think that on a magic level, a very sublte change was wrought on the BBs who went thru Raraku, and possibly extended to the whole bunch.

It's not ascendency, obviously, given how they dies en masse from GotM forward, but i thought it was a just a tiny bit of health, strength, fighting spirit, what have you, more than the ordinary.

Plus, the legendary nature of the BB's contributed something to the mix, even before they all 'officially' ascended post MoI.

So between Raraku, legend status, the Tanno song, Paran's blessing, Moon's Spawn's magic and subsequent induction into the Deck at least as linked to Paran's MoD card , there's a LOT going on there.

- Abyss, yes, it's gettin' kind a hectic.

[Limaris]

Danya, Surtr and Abyss thank you for your insight. However as ever, more knowledge raises more questions...So we are in agreement that the change was phycological that their fate is too die and ascend. However I don't think the question of "Why Raraku?" has been raised. Are we to assume that the desert changes everyone who has been through it?

I also ponder as to their ascendancy. Though I will be able to "find" this out when I look back at the books...has every perished BB ascended? Because I am sure it says that the BB's have ascended and does not give specific names.

[K'orladis]

I agree with sonnyboy, the theme of chaging people within a desert is very common to a lot of books, Also i do think that the change for the BB's was a psychological change that happened within Raraku untill it became a physical change also, with the tanno spritwalker giving them ascendancy. The whole connection of the mind thing i think is just them knowing what the other is thinking just from being together in an atmosphere so close as a company of soldiers for so long, i highly doubt it is a real telepathic thing going on between them.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Surtr said:

in the glossary, under ascendants... there's only the Bridgeburners... but i'm sure that only the ones who survived Pale, and among them only the ones who take acctually part in the story became ascendants....althoug a company of immortal soldiers, loyal to whiskeyjack would be very cool:cool:

No, remember in HoC Kalam is shocked to see a BB, among the ghosts, who died long before Pale. He didn't give a name, but he had a scarred face and seems to have gone nuts and attacked his friends or something like that, maybe even betrayed the BB's.

So I think every single individual who has at any time been a BB post-Raraku has ascended. Think about it, what does Pale have to do with the BB's ascending? It's rather arbitrary to assert that the end of the siege is the cut-off point for a BB to ascend.

If it wasn't for the above example of the long-dead BB appearing among the ghosts, I would've guessed that all the BB's alive at the time Kimloc began his song would've then gone on to ascend, while those who were already dead wouldn't.

But it seems that they all have. All the dead BB's are with Hedge, except for Whiskeyjack, who seems to be a special case. Presumably the others will join them when they die (Blend, Picker, etc). Don't know about Fid, Kalam, QB & Paran, Apsalar, they are all more than the average Bridgeburner. I think they are all destined for true ascension, ascension while still alive.

Limaris said:

Danya, Surtr and Abyss thank you for your insight. However as ever, more knowledge raises more questions...So we are in agreement that the change was phycological that their fate is too die and ascend. However I don't think the question of "Why Raraku?" has been raised. Are we to assume that the desert changes everyone who has been through it?

I also ponder as to their ascendancy. Though I will be able to "find" this out when I look back at the books...has every perished BB ascended? Because I am sure it says that the BB's have ascended and does not give specific names.

Remember, Raraku is a very special place. It's got some kind of group memory and self-contained existence, as we see from Kalam's trip backs through time (when he hears the conversation about the Holy Protectors, and meets Tanno himself) and the way it rises up at the end of HoC and the new ocean is born. Consider the BB's as a weapon, in Raraku they were forged, as explicitly noted in the books.

I'd consider the "Raraku-boost" as a kind of analogue to Gesler, Stormy & Truth's Thyrllan-derived powers, though with less obvious benefits.

[Limaris]

Sonnyboy, its an answer nonetheless and one I am inclined to agree with. Though to get closer to the answe I am looking for, it I were to rephrase it too, "Why the BB's?"

Dolorous, thank, you've cleared my mind a little there. However you have raised another question that I was going to ask...the song that Kalam could hear in his head as well as the other BB's present in Raraku why was it written for them? And why on earth did I feel that Kalam was opposed to the stealing of the song? Is it just another pre cursor to their ascendancy?

I felt I glided over that part of the story without the proper attention it deserved.

[Whelp]

Limaris:
Why not the Bridgeburners? They could be considered a precursor to Trake's Legion in a way, so the connection among them is not much of a surprise.

Btw, does anyone know why they are called Bridgeburners?

[tiam]

because they were considered to have burnt there pasts-ala there bridges- down and become something new. i think theres a quote from MOI that says what they were before is irrelevant only what they do now is vital or sutton

[Limaris]

Precisely tiam.

Whelp how do you come by the suggestion that the BB's could be a precursor to Trake's Legion? I thought they, apart from Trake himself were a mob of untrained citizens?

They had not undergone any military training like the BB's. Surely not a precursor, they seem far more advanced.

[Whelp]

Limaris:
I meant that the Bridgeburners (to me) seem able to act together, almost as a single entity. Come to think of it, this feeling is projected from the malazan legions throughout the series... Should have thought before posting.

tiam:
Thanks for the info.

[Urko Crust]

Limaris said:

And why on earth did I feel that Kalam was opposed to the stealing of the song? Is it just another pre cursor to their ascendancy?

I felt I glided over that part of the story without the proper attention it deserved.

i think that kalam is opposed to the song because he hates kimloc "the Lord of Empty Threats" who oppened the gates of his city to the malazans during the original conquest of 7C. also, i get the impression that Kalam would not choose to ascend given the choice. i dont know why

[Limaris]

Was it Kimloc or Tanno himself who stole the song ("of" or "from") the BB's? I had not realised that Kimloc had done such a thing.